From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDzos3lBBoElFSdqQ@googlegroups.com Mon Oct 11 11:03:52 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5Mit-0003ZD-CG; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:52 -0700 Received: by vws4 with SMTP id 4sf1344907vws.16 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LdE3h3zFZ9mm26Bgu2hG0XIr5Ys64a9f38NtWmFCKoI=; b=PbivBN33BbKt+vu3LyffqNIKE90Vpt453xIiMrKV539njYMvsjUOO5Vct0yhANpuvf Dt353DJMT6YfK3ycn4VaBUfHlMGt3qzUmrvQUfd8NKBEuXsJ0mJmgl0Cl8eW9rZhV3kC 94SLn/Yyw+wDQBE37fcK5cSqsSlPqFfDqx+Ag= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iGAsaYWPHVFbX5muoHcvQaYeNA+pLJpVF5EjvMa9uTXfB3oSln4YgDE/h6jBAPoQrt Cwn7fNeLb7EQfRo6axwZ86w6GPYfD8XNFMnc+Z3Ct2v6XaKHCVV9uB+aDUpG7Zcvuzec 7euayXSYpnNV+TRs+R6Ast/JA5hT3zvhqhWyI= Received: by 10.220.190.77 with SMTP id dh13mr3382vcb.44.1286820211434; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.160.2 with SMTP id l2ls525724vcx.4.p; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.187.195 with SMTP id cx3mr766194vcb.20.1286820210568; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.187.195 with SMTP id cx3mr766193vcb.20.1286820210530; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f174.google.com (mail-qy0-f174.google.com [209.85.216.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t41si1082496vcr.0.2010.10.11.11.03.29; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.174; Received: by mail-qy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 5so1193698qyk.5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.80.203 with SMTP id u11mr2821762qak.1.1286820209256; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.89.67 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <518902.87375.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <201010081902.22934.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20101009152624.GA1918@alice.local> <82e4f805-b84d-4921-96a4-44f3217cd093@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <518902.87375.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:03:28 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Learning cmavo From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But that goes all the way back to the Loglan "bi", doesn't it? (which only meant "=3D", IIRC) --gejyspa On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 1:51 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > Why is the word for the concept of identity not in the class of basic wor= ds > (those of form CVCCV or CCVC)? =A0Well it usta was; 'dunli' is the relict= of > that ancient time. =A0But then the powers that were notice that people > generally used 'same' and even 'identical' to mean something relative to > some relevant property;. =A0At the same time, during one of the occasiona= l > thinking sprees about MEX, some one noted they needed an word for '=3D' t= hat > fit in with that program. =A0Soooo, eventually the two concepts split, th= e > practical, relative one going to a gismu, the stricter, more mathematical= , > to something tha looked OK in formulae. =A0More or less. > ________________________________ > From: Ian Johnson > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 12:08:08 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Learning cmavo > > I know that, I meant why is the word that means what {du} means in GOhA a= nd > a cmavo? That is, why isn't it a gismu? > mu'o mi'e latros. > > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Ian Johnson >> wrote: >>> >>> ...Agh. "A word is a selbri." I know there aren't many ways of saying >>> that better, but I still cringe a bit at that. >>> Also, why IS {du} in GOhA? Why is it even a cmavo? >> >> It's a cmavo because of it's shape. It's a CV word. All CV words are >> cmavo. >> >>> >>> Also, a few more typos: >>> {bu'a} and friends are numbered wrong. >>> {ma} has "simti" instead of "sumti" >>> Nice, by the way. >>> mu'o mi'e latros. >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Lindar wrote: >>>> >>>> du means "x1 is exactly the same thing as x2" >>>> >>>> Not like "this apple is exactly the same as that apple", but "Jeff's >>>> apple is the same as this apple." x1 and x2 of {du} are one and the >>>> same object/person/thing/idea. I believe it's derived from dunli, >>>> which is where 1 and 2 are similar objects and x3 is the similar >>>> trait. If there was anything in Lojban that was like "is", {du} would >>>> probably be it (in the sense of "Mr. Jingle is Jeff's bird." OSLT). >>>> >>>> So... not pro-bridi, it's an actual selbri. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patf= u >> do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.