From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCls9PlBBoE8n_mCA@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 12 14:57:13 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5mqJ-0000QR-Nq; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:57:13 -0700 Received: by pxi5 with SMTP id 5sf2197831pxi.16 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=YyLKUdL1EMq2vXnUiYtcvLOW3hoCkARWqMSLWGGhZr4=; b=M2HtYevtNecZruSnz0jPZ4/eNN7YHMmRiGGyR0yMC/IibxxQxZCa2NtQmIzSEAh81V 7kGs7cO2raVaZCulbA86xPWhA4x7KgPuiClO37kHNNu0J0YMwLF+3ZIXVP7rcVbYaau1 dgZVcR/7PFkyX+a2mTAOzgrrAOfrToha4aQ8s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=xo2we6FjaSRcnZtl3t4W6gW8gyoQ7nkrJ/QhU/wSzaTeBFOkd13Zf0+KKspPYnXjiw HjN9mBk4r7tKZAR4HeYc82kROiit04sFSdqcrcYbu8guXR69pidcO+EqSCLxiU4djy+y wY4hXz4GP+cSY2ueuD/dTxEnK+GJBJbffphx4= Received: by 10.143.86.1 with SMTP id o1mr200086wfl.57.1286920613592; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:56:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.117.2 with SMTP id p2ls615933wfc.1.p; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.171.17 with SMTP id t17mr3242339wfe.10.1286920612431; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.171.17 with SMTP id t17mr3242337wfe.10.1286920612399; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n6si2229802wfl.3.2010.10.12.14.56.51; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=lu/RhtYP0ChAeUxMEPBris12a71TWT5f9yvo3GNwP9w= c=1 sm=0 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=VMAKdVgghaDg2-3t2sAA:9 a=zhCwsCFQCOL9j4iGjEV3I54ir-oA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:40208] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 4A/37-14228-3A9D4BC4; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:56:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCFFB9DA for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] mei Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:56:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010121756.43007.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday 12 October 2010 16:47:19 Luke Bergen wrote: > Looking at http://vlasisku.lojban.org/mei I would guess that the x1 of > {Xmei} would be a mass formed from a set (x2) whose X members are (x3). > > But then I look at > http://vlasisku.lojban.org/cimei and > it says that x1 is a set. So if I talk about {lo cimei gerku cu batci lo > mripre} am I saying that as a mass, the three dogs bit the mailman or am = I > saying that the set of three dogs bites the mailman? > > I forget some of the differences between sets and masses. I think if a s= et > of 3 things does a thing then all 3 must have done it individually where = as > long as 1 of a mass of 3 does a thing then the entire mass has done it. = So > there is certainly a difference in meaning. > > So which is it? Both "cimei" and "mei" were entered by officialdata, so it's a conflict=20 between the gimste and the ma'oste or within the ma'oste. (I'm leaving in a= =20 few minutes for a meeting, so I can't look it up now.) A set of dogs can't bite. It can only have members and do some things like= =20 simxu. A mass of dogs can bite, as can a dog. Taking bacteria instead of=20 dogs, loi jurme bene'i mi cu mleca loi mivysle be mi .iku'i lo'i jurme bene= 'i=20 mi cu zmadu lo'i mivysle be mi .iki'ubo lo jurme cu mutce mleca lo remna=20 mivysle (the mass of bacteria in me is smaller than the mass of my cells, b= ut=20 the set of bacteria in me is larger than the set of my cells, because a=20 bacterium is much smaller than a human cell). Pierre --=20 La sal en el mar es m=E1s que en la sangre. Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.