From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCXnNjlBBoEyfobdA@googlegroups.com Wed Oct 13 12:53:10 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P67Nq-0003s1-LL; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:53:10 -0700 Received: by pxi5 with SMTP id 5sf2722314pxi.16 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=0vRpT2Xlrwyn2FIiGTxUfxPQY9mrZAmMpNXkbYHLuJU=; b=xpxnUI0u57+LBknpIuQFW22KQsZsJ8MszHA6K6yIjnidNrbvU71HKuMVA/wRceFvL0 tAp8aQc6yg18KUeyFXgUamVoM2G+RMPE5qDEweEqrBPnpZdR7Qbt+92NRdvgW9Tj9OKW sTFyP2dqIZC/KHttvIOQAJfFWRCD0HY+8TZEw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=iYknimCJZnykaG05Eo+tYRx949NvBE00M4epjwjwGJ8tpj7LCSKSKmyxYX5AMyroRw IbmBRJTSlWfMcEpESswJca60XPLjr1BvlkEYPfbOPaCWZRaZ+ps09MSGP3s/Komkadvg HnYlRG+hXRLwvK8eJkGbc3UjePAe/pIaaSGkg= Received: by 10.142.149.18 with SMTP id w18mr70548wfd.45.1286999575090; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:52:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.248.13 with SMTP id v13ls2089142wfh.0.p; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.221.10 with SMTP id t10mr3321579wfg.63.1286999574534; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.221.10 with SMTP id t10mr3321576wfg.63.1286999574504; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si12503355wfc.2.2010.10.13.12.52.53; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ALbtVQEExLOhREAE4uHfxbqzTWUR30DhsQWsYDE8EDY= c=1 sm=0 a=HKYVsQpnCgAA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=slroTxXk4Xm5rN3u4RsA:9 a=cTeFvPJE-iizy7MRBFldVEELjn0A:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:52428] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id AF/84-28710-51E06BC4; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:52:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF8017860 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:52:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:52:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <411619.6727.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <201010131021.22518.jezuch@interia.pl> In-Reply-To: <201010131021.22518.jezuch@interia.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010131552.43986.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 13 October 2010 04:21:18 Krzysztof Sobolewski wrote: > Dnia =B6roda, 13 pa=BCdziernika 2010 o 05:21:04 MorphemeAddict napisa=B3(= a): > > How do Poles learn to say English or German 'h'? Do it the same way. > > Is there any other 'h' in those languages? German has "ch" as in "ich", b= ut > that's very different and is taught explicitly, and Polish "h" does fine = as > either English or German "h", so there's no special attention given it. O= r > at least I don't remember anything like that (I tried to learn German for > three years ;) ). It might be better luck with French, as everyone knows > its "h" is bizarre and ridiculous ;) German has the ich-Laut and the ach-Laut, which are allophones, and "h", wh= ich=20 is different. A quick check turned up no minimal pairs (some pairs looked= =20 like them, such as "chatten/hatten", but the "ch" is pronounced otherwise).= =20 Maybe some German on the list can think of some. Pierre --=20 Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.