From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDo0NnlBBoE5YsjIQ@googlegroups.com Wed Oct 13 19:18:31 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P6DOm-00083g-2F; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:31 -0700 Received: by vws4 with SMTP id 4sf2453274vws.16 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=6avDudocLOeCpKzLpw4uhq5EHDznsK/xAgZJugvHs5w=; b=D92OeCwfG0zanz0nDLrrK2VCW75xysrGrMhs2S87dF6SE/fDNAyz6uG9Y+M+YRbvtv 8lYzTdFWLkoBb2HF4b8j6j8au+KriNjZl14VhBRFpEyIi/QnCJA716QxBoQfgE++FhnA a7aiAcGlglAMQ9P1ilz0WFoneOYSTSPM38aB0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ZS5zreA/IzRXZBvzFboStOy36YCVOeuYs5VIVI9fDVo6fgWDC4eQU+p9uP80JtRrNi wXtBvrhBvbvvJtwdK/6JDewJpikSoeoCj/57NBqKCuUm/3wOJl+yXjrNQREL60k3apji MNBak+yHDaVu7Emgq3W/PAjRMPFeaTbGQZ8dw= Received: by 10.220.200.137 with SMTP id ew9mr341165vcb.32.1287022696142; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.127.94 with SMTP id f30ls275391vcs.1.p; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.184.8 with SMTP id ci8mr2381669vcb.26.1287022695455; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.184.8 with SMTP id ci8mr2381668vcb.26.1287022695419; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f24si1450239vcm.1.2010.10.13.19.18.14; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.54; Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1so3639777vws.27 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.178.200 with SMTP id bn8mr1372208vcb.199.1287022694220; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.186.4 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.186.4 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:18:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:18:14 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] si and quotes From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba53a54681c67904928a5242 --90e6ba53a54681c67904928a5242 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .oi .uu. So I guess the song zo si si si doesn't really work then On Oct 13, 2010 10:02 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas" wrote: > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> So, I understand what happens with zo si si si. > > With the PEG grammar you only use one "si" to delete the whole "zo > si", and there is no way to delete the quoted word alone. This is > because magic words work on a "first come first served" basis, and > once a word has been quoted with "zo" they form an inseparable unit. > > "Magic words" are ZO, ZEI, BU, SI, SA, SU, LOhU-LEhU and ZOI. The > peculiarity of these words is that they see all other words as just > words, they don't care what selma'o they belong to, they treat them > all the same. And once they've grabbed them they won't let them go, so > essentially they form a compound that behaves like a single word. > >> But what happens if I say >> {.i mi cusku lu mi nelci lo xunre li'u si gerk li'u}. Does the si >> successfully "take back" the first li'u such that the "gerku" is still part >> of the quote? > > Yes. "lu" and "li'u" behave like ordinary words. They do care what > selma'o the words they have dealings with belong to. > > But in "lo'u si si si si si si si le'u si", all the "si" inside > lo'u-le'u are deactivated (because lo'u came first and treats anything > until "le'u" as just-a-word, it doesn't care what word it is. But then > the whole construction "lo'u si si si si si si si le'u" is now a > single entity and the final "si" can take revenge and delete it all in > one swoop. > > Similarly a single "si" is enough to delete "broda zei brode" just as > it deletes "brodybrode", and it will delete ".abu" just as it deletes > "by". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com = . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --90e6ba53a54681c67904928a5242 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

.oi .uu.=A0 So I guess the song zo si si si doesn't really work then=

On Oct 13, 2010 10:02 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas= " <jjllambias@gmail.com= > wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:32 PM, = Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.= com> wrote:
>> So, I understand what happens with zo si si si.
>
> W= ith the PEG grammar you only use one "si" to delete the whole &qu= ot;zo
> si", and there is no way to delete the quoted word alone= . This is
> because magic words work on a "first come first served" basi= s, and
> once a word has been quoted with "zo" they form an= inseparable unit.
>
> "Magic words" are ZO, ZEI, BU= , SI, SA, SU, LOhU-LEhU and ZOI. The
> peculiarity of these words is that they see all other words as just> words, they don't care what selma'o they belong to, they trea= t them
> all the same. And once they've grabbed them they won'= ;t let them go, so
> essentially they form a compound that behaves like a single word.
&= gt;
>> But what happens if I say
>> {.i mi cusku lu mi n= elci lo xunre li'u si gerk li'u}.=A0 Does the si
>> succes= sfully "take back" the first li'u such that the "gerku&q= uot; is still part
>> of the quote?
>
> Yes. "lu" and "li= 9;u" behave like ordinary words. They do care what
> selma'o= the words they have dealings with belong to.
>
> But in "= ;lo'u si si si si si si si le'u si", all the "si" in= side
> lo'u-le'u are deactivated (because lo'u came first and tre= ats anything
> until "le'u" as just-a-word, it doesn= 9;t care what word it is. But then
> the whole construction "lo&= #39;u si si si si si si si le'u" is now a
> single entity and the final "si" can take revenge and delete= it all in
> one swoop.
>
> Similarly a single "si&= quot; is enough to delete "broda zei brode" just as
> it de= letes "brodybrode", and it will delete ".abu" just as i= t deletes
> "by".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
= > --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to th= e Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, se= nd email to lojban@googlegroups.= com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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