From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCjutzlBBoEFkDnbg@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 14 08:10:36 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P6PRs-0003Z8-NX; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:10:36 -0700 Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20sf1501878wye.16 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VjIWG/lF1C3WN1DT4WDEhqg1N/h0WmEwDy3cORo7qvI=; b=Zh3I5mOM8SOLxRv9DxRX7nROazo77O6ByFcR+htoAaD4vDB8tZ9XwmFwdD8clN2Yc/ UsKUXiFM5VWXGsrPSZq0FUu7Oztfl9HK6S6zrautASbBkOkejdKvDp5gOgMqZeYaVdPj aZ78q5orb9fZGUoCtW1cRYr//q8X2Qdfe+Zco= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dCaMzAjwPhgtIYp7oPgy7ZjHwU5283WFk4wOGcNsIwcGk/UCCJgbqyb1uu+ny9RJ6H 2KC66tWCucfi8TFhhpHAVB1e2/RRpwevVoI0dUkD0/YgAZdshJgGzBmA+Ir6GNcr2kTd 7dQ2WVxp0RRSlM3WawtZtVMQnc1ZDailmkjP0= Received: by 10.216.237.231 with SMTP id y81mr1199711weq.23.1287068963279; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.168.134 with SMTP id u6ls871576wby.1.p; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.142.206 with SMTP id r14mr477843wbu.9.1287068961483; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.142.206 with SMTP id r14mr477842wbu.9.1287068961395; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w33si2748700wbd.6.2010.10.14.08.09.20; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.182; Received: by mail-wy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 38so290834wyb.27 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.127.194 with SMTP id h2mr9956892wbs.74.1287068960006; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:09:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 12:09:17 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] si and quotes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > hmm, yeah, that's a good question. =A0I don't know if anyone has formally > worked out lo'ai sa'ai le'ai. =A0Maybe I should learn PEG and write up a > proposed formal definition. =A0How does the grammar treat to ... toi? It's a simple free modifier: "to (text) toi". It can be inserted (almost) anywhere in another text. >=A0I would > think that lo'ai sa'ai le'ai would have a similar structure. I see it as = a > metalinguistic comment about previous statements. =A0I'm guessing that it > would probably be too complex to have the grammar go back and make the > actual substitutions. Ah, yes, I now seem to recall something like that. But internally it's more like "lo'u ... le'u" in the sense that it surrounds any number of words without caring about their selma'o, right? I fact that's probably where "lo'ai" and "le'ai" come from. If so, one "si" would delete the whole structure. > And it could cause problems if one did something like ".ui mi nelci lo > selsa'a beme'e lu zo si si si li'u" which, I'm not sure how that would > behave. =A0zo si si gets negated and then the third si kills lu then anot= her > zo si si kills itself and another third si kills me'e. Right, you'd have to quote it with "lo'u ... le'u", or else use two dummy words after "lu" if you wanted to preserve the grammatical structure of the song. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.