From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCt8KPlBBoEcq7AJA@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 03 14:40:13 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P2WHx-0000QM-Ld; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:40:13 -0700 Received: by qwf6 with SMTP id 6sf6227575qwf.16 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:40:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=i6jLKXEPhLAu89QHYVOTQzfxW2KYy2y9z+WfYNPrv3o=; b=xCRza2HIkyguSUs0HnMEG7pZp8cfeKR4oy+cRAsTkvDb+O7RqEY3mQ7IWESKrOL3XR L89EHvCSCfVlBnRhRj9nvdOPxP0gJWrZyPfR/hm+gRr4VWj9xbAkJGi1N8PikM1VH+eQ A6Wpz0hlPfX5Yi0p3Vt07ylCtKJsvimLVYRFY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=otP0FW8i2r2jFt/juSFcFeEkcvJ6RNPt02R8U5WiQHFifLcVXfEdnbuv2Eig6fPvEm e2nHjauLtt0cWL9jMOCLAiB7iwOFRHSyhGGtodlLZdEVS/akkmtNhriyjkm5sNhzystU bAP9xkpkkMdrq9htGQpGjtdLp5/yE3gxVOIV4= Received: by 10.229.2.165 with SMTP id 37mr646581qcj.8.1286141997682; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls1931167qcz.3.p; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.20 with SMTP id ie20mr2301117qcb.20.1286141997081; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.222.20 with SMTP id ie20mr2301116qcb.20.1286141996956; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com (mail-qy0-f180.google.com [209.85.216.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c41si2299323qcs.12.2010.10.03.14.39.55; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.180; Received: by mail-qy0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 1so3981qyk.11 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.217.195 with SMTP id hn3mr5339745qab.96.1286141995753; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.92.2 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 14:39:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:39:55 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] A pro-sumti for PU? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3005defcc9a0820491bd44ba --20cf3005defcc9a0820491bd44ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > > > Can {nau} be a tag unto itself? > > Not sure what you mean by that. All tags have essentially the same > grammar, the only difference is in how they combine with one another, > but even that difference should disappear if this (or something > similar) is approved: > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DInternal+grammar+of+tags {nau} is in a different selma'o from {ca}. I don't actually know how CUhE works exactly, so that's why I asked that question. > > > > I'm thinking of trying to unambiguously > > (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick) say "now", assig= n > > that time to a variable, > > I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fasnu". > > Does CUhE work like that? > > and then use that in subsequent discussion. > > Ah, but once the moment of the assignment has passed, the now you have > assigned is no longer the current now. :) > That was the point. Assigning a now at a stage and then unambiguously pointing back to it. > > > A > > somewhat realistic example in English: > > I went home. Then I went to the store, like you asked. But before all > that, > > I went to my friend's house, where we did blah blah blah interesting > stuff. > > A decent way to do this, now that I think about it a little more, would > > probably be to use {lo tcika be lo du'u go'i} and {lo tcika be lo du'u > > go'e}; it would be nice to be able to readily grab these as a sentence = is > > said and (unambiguously) store them, though. > > But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the time of what > the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn't play any > relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the past > of the time when the story is told. > Then is there an unambiguous way (again, {ca zo'e} isn't sufficient for this, in my opinion) to point at a time in the story? mu'o mi'e latros. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --20cf3005defcc9a0820491bd44ba Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote: >
> Can {nau} be a tag unto itself?

Not sure what you mean by that. All tags have essentially the same grammar, the only difference is in how they combine with one another,
but even that difference should disappear if this (or something
similar) is approved:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page= =3DInternal+grammar+of+tags

{nau} is in= a different selma'o from {ca}. I don't actually know how CUhE work= s exactly, so that's why I asked that question.=A0


> I'm thinking of trying to unambiguously
> (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick) say &qu= ot;now", assign
> that time to a variable,

I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fasnu&= quot;.

Does CUhE work like that?
> and then use that in subsequent discussion.

Ah, but once the moment of the assignment has passed, the now you hav= e
assigned is no longer the current now. :)

That was the point. Assigning a now at a stage and then unambiguously po= inting back to it.=A0

> A
> somewhat realistic example in English:
> I went home. Then I went to the store, like you asked. But before all = that,
> I went to my friend's house, where we did blah blah blah interesti= ng stuff.
> A decent way to do this, now that I think about it a little more, woul= d
> probably be to use {lo tcika be lo du'u go'i} and {lo tcika be= lo du'u
> go'e}; it would be nice to be able to readily grab these as a sent= ence is
> said and (unambiguously) store them, though.

But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the tim= e of what
the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn't pl= ay any
relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the past
of the time when the story is told.
Then is there an u= nambiguous way (again, {ca zo'e} isn't sufficient for this, in my o= pinion) to point at a time in the story?


mu'o mi'e latros.

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