From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCM5ujlBBoE4L45ig@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 16 16:20:00 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7G2b-0002sw-7B; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:59 -0700 Received: by gwj22 with SMTP id 22sf2301648gwj.16 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=mAR+CxRJXfsBgF8UMEebKCfsM3PcJhY5N8SQkCKOMrA=; b=3CPvCSEGuZ3Pay5dGRHrM2WUmVOBmYUjvrb9l6bBriXEVJlLV1/1onhVvPuMRcUSDy q9Q+C42ufszEpNBH9uyFwrjEEvZ3KvNT1OlFuTb1QlWDMJ93Vz7X22oHgnpND+i2VnTX szJcUAkeAqkRvtsxLS2CFfvaUwbGEqvTLvhlY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=T/3xwBQKhcChGfa7kb7g4TfXZDrkDXx0chO4WDTr9Z1MKRi4S0UwqcHGcOmJ2FprMN vUzkKZk6MKkLMSw+hf+i2YaBDhSa4+XAynlMV/Q770+lsqEZnkngScQ++Y7XteNGulkW anNI2wkGfuRtZl3P26uu5c+ueJgQPhnQG1MNY= Received: by 10.101.3.31 with SMTP id f31mr49717ani.21.1287271180896; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.112.41 with SMTP id u41ls3085836ibp.1.p; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr1305347ibx.11.1287271179584; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr1305346ibx.11.1287271179508; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j25si4452117ibb.4.2010.10.16.16.19.38; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by iwn38 with SMTP id 38so3030046iwn.2 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.205.193 with SMTP id fr1mr1616611icb.387.1287270788472; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.208.15 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:13:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101016225351.GE10877@alice.local> References: <385d6b2f-c484-494b-9241-6d7429ce0ec3@p20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <20101014234221.GC2916@alice.local> <20101016185701.GB10877@alice.local> <20101016225351.GE10877@alice.local> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:13:08 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Questions on isolating utterances before completely parsing From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30427336139fc20492c416de --20cf30427336139fc20492c416de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:53 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 04:04:21PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > Does it have to use PEG? .camxes. uses a RATS! parser, maybe that is > less > > of a "black box" and would work better for this? I'm only guessing, as > I > > don't know thing 2 about parsers in general. > > > > I believe RATS! is a particular implementation of PEG parsing. So > PEG parsing is a parsing technique, and Rats! is one of the > implementations of that technique. > > Robin talks about this issue as it pertains to Lojban with some depth > here: > > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/ > > Bryan Ford's Master's Thesis on Packrat Parsers is suprisingly > accessible, including what makes PG (Parsing Grammars) more > expressive than CFG's (Context-free Grammars): > > http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~baford/packrat/thesis/ > > He does make the assumption you're familiar with parsers in general. > The Abstract on that page is a great summary of what trade-offs you > make with packrat parsers vs Yacc-style parsers. > > The book I learned parsing from is the "Dragon Book": _Compilers: > Principles, Techniques, and Tools_. There may be a better book these > days, but I won't be surprised if there isn't. > > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > Ah well. Can't say I didn't try. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf30427336139fc20492c416de Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:53 PM, .alyn.post. <alyn.p= ost@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 04:04:21PM -0600, Jonathan Jones = wrote:
> =A0 =A0Does it have to use PEG? .camxes. uses a RATS! parser, maybe th= at is less
> =A0 =A0of a "black box" and would work better for this? I= 9;m only guessing, as I
> =A0 =A0don't know thing 2 about parsers in general.
>

I believe RATS! is a particular implementation of PEG parsing. =A0So<= br> PEG parsing is a parsing technique, and Rats! is one of the
implementations of that technique.

Robin talks about this issue as it pertains to Lojban with some depth
here:

=A0http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lo= jban/grammar/

Bryan Ford's Master's Thesis on Packrat Parsers is suprisingly
accessible, including what makes PG (Parsing Grammars) more
expressive than CFG's (Context-free Grammars):

=A0http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~baford/packrat/thesis/

He does make the assumption you're familiar with parsers in general. The Abstract on that page is a great summary of what trade-offs you
make with packrat parsers vs Yacc-style parsers.

The book I learned parsing from is the "Dragon Book": _Compilers:=
Principles, Techniques, and Tools_. =A0There may be a better book these
days, but I won't be surprised if there isn't.

-Alan
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

Ah well. Can't s= ay I didn't try.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.=

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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