From lojban+bncCJrK5PGGEBDBj-vlBBoEeTmTtA@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 17 02:54:25 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7Pwc-0004Nq-So; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:25 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1466711wwe.16 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:from:organization :to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :x-interia-antivirus:x-emid:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=F+dEg2gvXwH4F+8DNJFmKmCvi0RXsbc9Zdc+ursmLi4=; b=p0xpBBElkVbm8+u83Y7n2H1tnRtp69f8KDatHyVggQ0+y6UotDi4dcuuhcaOLQlgwm 9Ib/SCjmCOmK0ahVS37j7cUHkitHmBE/TQwXUtCb+XttzKtP6seGfqEE/Oa9+Ysuqzou LHTz/FMhGUE3HkGYNU5qwNmM7x28hEM72AoLQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:organization:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:x-interia-antivirus:x-emid :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; b=qomH5fqWqZmqB2s/meW/2TYtk460SquAjBNHLcppwFeBJv28AJJ2gB1kumyajWHAhS b+j7Ut8/MKo/nhImenhgeVobUlO4m6lAnrZ3AYQcgeV1cuqMLwqYTSK7VvT6yM0wTaim zbBldNJezRtYDPUq6P2G2gwkel4gY23Mw6RtE= Received: by 10.216.240.140 with SMTP id e12mr249370wer.0.1287309249824; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.24.73 with SMTP id w49ls367654eew.4.p; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.127.131 with SMTP id d3mr228605eei.11.1287309247705; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.127.131 with SMTP id d3mr228604eei.11.1287309247687; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r57si13410549eeh.1.2010.10.17.02.54.07; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=217.74.65.205; Received: by smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL, from userid 502) id 3C1C7102CE1D; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:54:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zx-spectrum-1 (c204.idd156.nettete.pl [77.79.204.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL) with ESMTPSA for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 11:54:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jezuch by zx-spectrum-1 with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7Q34-0006q5-Bf for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:01:02 +0200 From: Krzysztof Sobolewski Organization: Sobole To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:00:58 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.36-rc7; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) References: <411619.6727.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1586113.7uXGRsadTA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201010171201.02214.jezuch@interia.pl> X-Interia-Antivirus: OK X-EMID: 2b048acc X-Original-Sender: jezuch@interia.pl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jezuch@interia.pl Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --nextPart1586113.7uXGRsadTA Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dnia czwartek, 14 pa=BCdziernika 2010 o 06:46:01 Stela Selckiku napisa=B3(a= ): > Here's me saying those: > http://www.cinchcast.com/selckiku/101280 I'm sorry but I still don't hear it. Are you sure that *you* can distinguis= h those sounds? I'm on the verge of declaring that this is the biggest ever mistake in the = design of lojban. Not as much because it's difficult for someone from my pa= rticular cultural background ;) but because it's grossly inconsistent with = the rest of the phonology. Take "r" for example - any rhotic sound is fine.= Or "y". In light of this permissiveness I'm left to wonder how this thing = with "x" and "'" came about. > Not that my pronunciation is always the best example. :) Could be a factor ;) =2D-=20 Ecce Jezuch "Can't hate me like I do, I know me better" - J. S. Clayden --nextPart1586113.7uXGRsadTA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAky6yVoACgkQy0fq9RM+Txi6TwCeJFhVHq1hhS8SZavMeS8CQ46B xycAn1QBbZOzGvCBiEa7W8BCO9Q0/S+Z =pxA0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1586113.7uXGRsadTA--