From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDX_aPlBBoEvkYR-A@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 03 15:08:40 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P2WjU-0001fj-D2; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:40 -0700 Received: by qwf6 with SMTP id 6sf6295706qwf.16 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QYNIYXypf3srIOiSpsSHXGD5Ln3odi7OPrVDvBtC4mY=; b=zeevlAH6lQuaA/Nap6a5GfCxizRasWDKeMPwlII6UDLms6bFW7ib/tfdz/VXQlMS1p cv4ogbYHvvHQoe9MAF/tVT1SO9xfu1YZgLrRFsMl3EpefcQEdYUgM40UYssHOqf6zKSI ap3SwU7VS4UsEy0DNvAqzmEuXDzGUoTtZgYDY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Wwse9XX5HfwpEl9/58+1DSMrRUtJddejIdl8F927mLNTmEX2vmwRidHlRvjxZReGKK oCDtESlL+Eq2MhEPz8way9M5mzcI0d9/SG07S8HmpGuAOimRz367EyqoSFwpMNoHtEOk qNKFs/gg5wUdomkxo47Ey3l2Asbkfd0KG/Msc= Received: by 10.229.43.218 with SMTP id x26mr647063qce.38.1286143703947; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.155 with SMTP id p27ls1937148qcz.3.p; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.190.130 with SMTP id di2mr1957666qcb.25.1286143703414; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.190.130 with SMTP id di2mr1957665qcb.25.1286143703379; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f181.google.com (mail-qy0-f181.google.com [209.85.216.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c20si2310166qcs.15.2010.10.03.15.08.22; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.181; Received: by mail-qy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 10so185353qyk.19 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.217.195 with SMTP id hn3mr5355463qab.96.1286143699988; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.92.2 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 15:08:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:08:19 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] A pro-sumti for PU? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3005defc5e30620491bdaa0f --20cf3005defc5e30620491bdaa0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, {la'e dei}, right. A little awkward, but it'll work for the occasions when this is is worth doing. ki'esai rodo mu'o mi'e latros. 2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > 2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas > >> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I'm thinking of trying to unambiguously > >> > (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick) say "now", > assign > >> > that time to a variable, > >> > >> I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fasnu". > >> > > Does CUhE work like that? > > As I said, all tags (BAI, CAhA, CUhE, KI, ZI, PU, VA, FAhA, ZEhA, > VEhA, VIhA, number ROI, TAhE, ZAhO) work in the same way when used > individually. They only work differently in how they combine with one > another to form compound tags. > > >> But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the time of what > >> the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn't play any > >> relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the past > >> of the time when the story is told. > > > > Then is there an unambiguous way (again, {ca zo'e} isn't sufficient for > > this, in my opinion) to point at a time in the story? > > We already mentioned "lo tcika be lo nu na'o". Or simpler: "lo tcika > be la'e dei". "dei" gets you the utterance, but "la'e dei" gets you > what the utterance is describing. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --20cf3005defc5e30620491bdaa0f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, {la'e dei}, right. A little awkward, but it'll work for the occ= asions when this is is worth doing.

ki'esai rodo

mu'o mi'e latros.

2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm thinking of trying to unambig= uously
>> > (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick= ) say "now", assign
>> > that time to a variable,
>>
>> I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fas= nu".
>>
> Does CUhE work like that?

As I said, all tags (BAI, CAhA, CUhE, KI, ZI, PU, VA, FAhA, ZEhA,
VEhA, VIhA, number ROI, TAhE, ZAhO) work in the same way when used
individually. They only work differently in how they combine with one
another to form compound tags.

>> But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the = time of what
>> the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn= 't play any
>> relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the pa= st
>> of the time when the story is told.
>
> Then is there an unambiguous way (again, {ca zo'e} isn't suffi= cient for
> this, in my opinion) to point at a time in the story?

We already mentioned "lo tcika be lo nu na'o". Or simpl= er: "lo tcika
be la'e dei". "dei" gets you the utterance, but "la= 'e dei" gets you
what the utterance is describing.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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