From lojban+bncCNXflom_FxDDmuzlBBoEbpbhDw@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 17 07:51:00 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7UZb-0002TG-S1; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:59 -0700 Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16sf1709fxm.16 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ovsDP/E/NXirjRWeMH1aopSDupT9gXfyEeWM+Vc5yig=; b=MjO2hDfFc45cY1pqpmHH7P/VrGeLl/a2x+zr1zQqFGC+O/Yavn6CkWWGaMCPw71c2p LBtbfug2kAtLl3y03Cu463BmF1Os9hFxdL2K2Zhdv6U5SJSyd3nLqVR/wl4p0M/UPTNU E3rnd6Z2Cd6DTkcLUpinbVhFUgHZn9SIIyIis= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=FBs2A0ikxLWqjlpgUlIKIV7vBjU1ZYVM8lUY9ITtz4An+zppwJsbN8U0ePyba1Ez2y zNMwmz2iPmjKflU9/GParH0agJhaikUdeTwZiD+mo25EiPDC8jcx7wKt/QWio3gch96v buM4OWzz2dbrUjPrskNTYDonkvNb3YA5Yaw9Y= Received: by 10.223.75.156 with SMTP id y28mr34585faj.19.1287327043526; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.137.193 with SMTP id x1ls2408101bkt.0.p; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr238721bkl.16.1287327042422; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr238720bkl.16.1287327042351; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g12si9965191bkl.5.2010.10.17.07.50.41; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of maikxlx@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.44; Received: by bwz14 with SMTP id 14so24539bwz.31 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.11.1 with SMTP id r1mr3365409bkr.75.1287327041188; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.56.195 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 07:50:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <411619.6727.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <201010171201.02214.jezuch@interia.pl> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:50:41 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation From: maikxlx To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: maikxlx@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of maikxlx@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=maikxlx@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325557622fff3d60492d12eb1 --000325557622fff3d60492d12eb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Oleksii Melnyk wrote: > > > 2010/10/17 Krzysztof Sobolewski > >> >> I'm sorry but I still don't hear it. >> > > As i understand, that is intentional, you should not hear the =C2=AB'=C2= =BB sound:). > I've got it that way: 1. make the voiced =C2=ABx=C2=BB. 2. relax the musc= les while > saying it. 3. shorten it a bit. > > Depending on exactly what you're "relaxing", you may be producing the voice= d velar approximate [=C9=B0], or the breathy-voiced glottal fricative [=C9=A6= ], or something similar. That'd be interesting to listen to. I am guessing that if either [=C9=B0] or [=C9=A6] ever became a prevalent a= llophone of Lojban /'/, then there's a good chance that that allophone would fortify to [=C9=A3], which would fill a gap in the consonant inventory. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --000325557622fff3d60492d12eb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Oleksii Melnyk = <lamelnyk@gmail.= com> wrote:


2010/10/17 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl&g= t;

I'm sorry but I still don't hear it.

As i understand, that is intentional, you= should not hear the =C2=AB'=C2=BB sound:). I've got it that way: 1= . make the voiced =C2=ABx=C2=BB. 2. relax the muscles while saying it. 3. s= horten it a bit.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Depending on exactly what you're "relaxing", you may be = producing the voiced velar approximate=C2=A0[=C9=B0], or the breathy-voiced= glottal fricative [=C9=A6], or something similar.=C2=A0 That'd be inte= resting to listen to.
=C2=A0
I am guessing that if either [=C9=B0] or [=C9=A6] ever became a preval= ent=C2=A0allophone of Lojban /'/, then there's a good chance that t= hat allophone would fortify to [=C9=A3], which would fill a gap in the consonant inventory.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0

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