From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCRgqTlBBoETNCt_g@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 03 15:18:09 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P2Wsg-00020j-J6; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:18:09 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf4021646gwb.16 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:18:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=kuF00C8blEmWoG97H+CcB62BfdMvVSssGFhoj2baTig=; b=TM/K/2dSVa/C4knihu+rGeEtZQGEdw/xy1xyusJ1iF5y2H4ks7i8PAwIoHR9JGhl9e qG0DtTwwQKxf1XmsRjwaXpA+IZ+7v+33C5KrT+vO8vnNgujtxlPt2IHAjRlEhKu4Pb3S D3O93w0LJdkgo3tY6a2bmZL1YynOyGahMorHQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=TUd3P1rclJwMQg5Sej6CW9WB4ViN/88Nd30imj9oUxGpLnu00PpR3RljX0xZKkleb5 10VTd/d6uECz6q/o9ioiMXMgpvkgoEuVfOhHq4U21Axn8QlfuKGmlbuZ9dD3hkl6hKSP 2z6wpv6CvCAq2n+a2+JuHlSlRbKJy7oVL9D3A= Received: by 10.90.92.18 with SMTP id p18mr555761agb.1.1286144273776; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls2380845ibr.2.p; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.192.73 with SMTP id dp9mr2226756ibb.16.1286144273046; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.192.73 with SMTP id dp9mr2226754ibb.16.1286144272997; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f175.google.com (mail-iw0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id e25si2532596ibk.3.2010.10.03.15.17.51; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; Received: by mail-iw0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 2so6121736iwn.6 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.173.9 with SMTP id n9mr9094320ibz.146.1286144270272; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.16 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 15:17:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 16:17:50 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] A pro-sumti for PU? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ec7ae5c08ea0491bdccb7 --0016364ec7ae5c08ea0491bdccb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > > > Can {nau} be a tag unto itself? > > Not sure what you mean by that. All tags have essentially the same > grammar, the only difference is in how they combine with one another, > but even that difference should disappear if this (or something > similar) is approved: > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DInternal+grammar+of+tags > Completely as a side note, I very much like that proposal. > > I'm thinking of trying to unambiguously > > (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick) say "now", assig= n > > that time to a variable, > > I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fasnu". > > > and then use that in subsequent discussion. > > Ah, but once the moment of the assignment has passed, the now you have > assigned is no longer the current now. :) > > > A > > somewhat realistic example in English: > > I went home. Then I went to the store, like you asked. But before all > that, > > I went to my friend's house, where we did blah blah blah interesting > stuff. > > A decent way to do this, now that I think about it a little more, would > > probably be to use {lo tcika be lo du'u go'i} and {lo tcika be lo du'u > > go'e}; it would be nice to be able to readily grab these as a sentence = is > > said and (unambiguously) store them, though. > > But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the time of what > the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn't play any > relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the past > of the time when the story is told. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016364ec7ae5c08ea0491bdccb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/10/3 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote: >
> Can {nau} be a tag unto itself?

Not sure what you mean by that. All tags have essentially the same grammar, the only difference is in how they combine with one another,
but even that difference should disappear if this (or something
similar) is approved:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page= =3DInternal+grammar+of+tags

Completely as a si= de note, I very much like that proposal.
=A0
> I'm thinking of trying to unambiguously
> (which rules out {zo'e}, if you're willing to nitpick) say &qu= ot;now", assign
> that time to a variable,

I guess you could use something like "ko'a goi lo nau fasnu&= quot;.

> and then use that in subsequent discussion.

Ah, but once the moment of the assignment has passed, the now you hav= e
assigned is no longer the current now. :)

> A
> somewhat realistic example in English:
> I went home. Then I went to the store, like you asked. But before all = that,
> I went to my friend's house, where we did blah blah blah interesti= ng stuff.
> A decent way to do this, now that I think about it a little more, woul= d
> probably be to use {lo tcika be lo du'u go'i} and {lo tcika be= lo du'u
> go'e}; it would be nice to be able to readily grab these as a sent= ence is
> said and (unambiguously) store them, though.

But "nau" is for the time of the utterance, not for the tim= e of what
the utterance is describing. In this example "nau" doesn't pl= ay any
relevant role, since eveything in the story has happened in the past
of the time when the story is told.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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