From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD9loPmBBoEtfG-kA@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 21 16:24:02 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P94UI-0004Qa-UD; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:24:02 -0700 Received: by ywk9 with SMTP id 9sf134485ywk.16 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=slVa0BxuBW/9sMQklB88+RNVmnBoggtgZANgO0PBAWo=; b=ZJVKyp9Kr62nUzu8y9AAb/8JCJ5gOJ+pQ2CrMB3e5hF8T2pV22G41Ypp67i91v6Z1P ECVi+XuNKNk8Vs855s2C24OW49V0dxC607iQj55+nrgWlgRxkjp7Gf8iYC492VwQkKef lFHq6AMJLd24soVbKw58P4AKKvuM1FIDRmmx0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=r2vIANdH6DQ2saEMzlUpxsAWWs4wMnF9nKMBzl2DQ82y8IHvX/6NpTLRyTmDqyhZb6 ZtJh007JxZXH8V/6lFDMd/HUIVmHKzTHz9uBAIHOlqSRY2gdFdxCFbSCmB3Tiy4s1t9h RY9Rqj5lD53oVX27GedNUkaatoBNtTzoTmJDk= Received: by 10.150.250.10 with SMTP id x10mr374323ybh.45.1287703421656; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls1009814ibr.2.p; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.11.136 with SMTP id t8mr176607ibt.0.1287703420965; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.11.136 with SMTP id t8mr176606ibt.0.1287703420921; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f179.google.com (mail-iw0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bm7si1341545ibb.2.2010.10.21.16.23.39; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.179; Received: by mail-iw0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 2so155902iwn.10 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.77 with SMTP id s13mr1641436ibd.190.1287703419728; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87a1d6be-f2d2-48df-8fbb-229f40962863@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <8832676c-b69c-40d6-bead-b2363df50577@x4g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <68ed33b3-7a17-4347-a25d-fd310520acf9@z17g2000prz.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: comics From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d5d65e8b2a3049328d062 --0022152d5d65e8b2a3049328d062 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 And yeah, I whipped up that reply way to fast. The same thing happens when I'm replying in english from my phone while eating dinner =p Which brings up another point. How acceptable are "mistakes" in lojban? I know I abuse English in all kinds of not-technically-correct ways. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna > > Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously > > foolish. > > Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and > > we're good, I think. > > I totally just forgot the li'u, but it's still ok since the {cu} tells the > user that this is outside of the quote since the bridi inside the quote has > already had it's selbri and the {nu} has also had it's {cusku} selbri, the > only selbri left to {cu} is the main bridi. More goodness of cu, I was able > to avoid {ku'o li'u kei ku} (not that it was best practice to drop the li'u > =p > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Lindar wrote: > >> > .i mi finti lo lujvo >> "I invent a lujvo." >> >> .i mi ranju tavla fi tu'a la lindar .u'i zo'o >> I persist-ish talk about that thing with Lindar (lol). >> (I assume you meant ranji) You want {pu je ca'o}, I believe. >> >> > .i lo mi pilno be zo jbosevyvajpre be'o simsa lo glico pe zoi .gy self >> important .gy >> My -user of "jbosevyvajpre"-ish similar thing an English thing of >> 'self important'. >> You formed a tanru here. If you had used ku/cu it would have read with >> a selbri, but I think you wanted to say {.i lo se valsi be zo >> jbosevyvajpre bei lo jbobau be'o ku simsa lo se valsi be zoi gy. self- >> important .gy. bei lo glibau be'o ku}, which is like "The meaning of >> the word 'jbosevyvajpre' is like the meaning of the word 'self- >> important'.". >> >> > .i mi cusku mu'i lo nu lo glico cu na xlarai >> I express because the English-thing isn't the worst. >> This is about where I lost you, so I have no suggestions here. >> >> > .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna >> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously >> foolish. >> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and >> we're good, I think. (It still parses AFAIK but it's confusing to >> leave a quote dangling like that.) Also, in response, I totally agree >> here. However, the language should be defined in itself, not in >> English. The English definition should derive from the original >> Lojban, not the other way around. >> >> > .i va'i mi tugni >> In other words, I agree. >> You kinda lost me in the middle, so I'm not sure with what you're >> agreeing. >> >> .i lo jbobau cu zmadu lo glibau lo nu se valsi >> Lojban is more than English being a meaning. >> lo te zmadu is a ka, not a nu. Should be {.i lo jbobau ku zmadu lo >> glibau lo ka valsi ce'u} or somesuch. "Lojban is more than English in >> meaning.". I'm still not sure exactly what is meant here. However, >> Lojban certainly does have a wider range of meanings and possible >> meanings in general. That's part of the design. >> >> > .i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u bebna fa lo nu cusku lo du'u lo glibau cu na se >> tirna mi >> However, I opine that the foolish thing is expressing fact English >> isn't heard by me. >> {mi jinvi} is stating that you opine, {pe'i} is actually indicative of >> an opinion. It's like the difference between {.i .ui mi klama} and {.i >> mi gleki lo nu klama}. The first one actually expresses the happiness. >> Also, a selsku is a se du'u, not the predication itself. So...are you >> saying that you are also foolish for disregarding English...or...? >> >> Plenty of errors, but the important thing is that you are trying. >> .i ki'e do mi ckire fi lo nu do se bangu la .lojban. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0022152d5d65e8b2a3049328d062 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And yeah, I whipped up that reply way to fast. =A0The same thing happens wh= en I'm replying in english from my phone while eating dinner =3Dp
<= br>
Which brings up another point. =A0How acceptable are "mi= stakes" in lojban? =A0I know I abuse English in all kinds of not-techn= ically-correct ways. =A0

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Luke Bergen= <lukeabergen= @gmail.com> wrote:
>&= gt; .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna
> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivo= lously
> foolish.
> Here's where I pick up again to some de= gree. Pop in that end-quote and
> we're good, I think.

I totally just forgot the li= 9;u, but it's still ok since the {cu} tells the user that this is outsi= de of the quote since the bridi inside the quote has already had it's s= elbri and the {nu} has also had it's {cusku} selbri, the only selbri le= ft to {cu} is the main bridi. =A0More goodness of cu, I was able to avoid {= ku'o li'u kei ku} (not that it was best practice to drop the li'= ;u =A0 =3Dp

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Lindar= <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
> .i mi finti lo lujvo
"I invent a lujvo."

.i mi ranju tavla fi tu'a la lindar .u'i zo'o
I persist-ish talk about that thing with Lindar (lol).
(I assume you meant ranji) You want {pu je ca'o}, I believe.

> .i lo mi pilno be zo jbosevyvajpre be'o simsa lo glico pe zoi .gy = self important .gy
My -user of "jbosevyvajpre"-ish similar thing an English th= ing of
'self important'.
You formed a tanru here. If you had used ku/cu it would have read with
a selbri, but I think you wanted to say {.i lo se valsi be zo
jbosevyvajpre bei lo jbobau be'o ku simsa lo se valsi be zoi gy. self-<= br> important .gy. bei lo glibau be'o ku}, which is like "The meaning = of
the word 'jbosevyvajpre' is like the meaning of the word 'self-=
important'.".

> .i mi cusku mu'i lo nu lo glico cu na xlarai
I express because the English-thing isn't the worst.
This is about where I lost you, so I have no suggestions here.

> .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna
Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolousl= y
foolish.
Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and<= br> we're good, I think. (It still parses AFAIK but it's confusing to leave a quote dangling like that.) Also, in response, I totally agree
here. However, the language should be defined in itself, not in
English. The English definition should derive from the original
Lojban, not the other way around.

> .i va'i mi tugni
In other words, I agree.
You kinda lost me in the middle, so I'm not sure with what you're agreeing.

.i lo jbobau cu zmadu lo glibau lo nu se valsi
Lojban is more than English being a meaning.
lo te zmadu is a ka, not a nu. Should be {.i lo jbobau ku zmadu lo
glibau lo ka valsi ce'u} or somesuch. "Lojban is more than English= in
meaning.". I'm still not sure exactly what is meant here. However,=
Lojban certainly does have a wider range of meanings and possible
meanings in general. That's part of the design.

> .i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u bebna fa lo nu cusku lo du'u lo g= libau cu na se tirna mi
However, I opine that the foolish thing is expressing fact English isn't heard by me.
{mi jinvi} is stating that you opine, {pe'i} is actually indicative of<= br> an opinion. It's like the difference between {.i .ui mi klama} and {.i<= br> mi gleki lo nu klama}. The first one actually expresses the happiness.
Also, a selsku is a se du'u, not the predication itself. So...are you saying that you are also foolish for disregarding English...or...?

Plenty of errors, but the important thing is that you are trying.
.i ki'e do mi ckire fi lo nu do se bangu la .lojban.

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