From lojban+bncCMuAoImuBxDQjYTmBBoEdlkh6A@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 21 20:37:05 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P98RB-00071s-Cw; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:37:05 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf189908wyb.16 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OqyRtScgeJ/IL5L4r84wv81bVShyWR3gULEfX44I04Y=; b=klqMStEvyoclXd+5jPIHW4eYS1DPvOILQ9x5fVTJ9hliM2aaWOTu1ohCAg9qQ6byIP IdGeIZf8i5+/mVZWcDBIJgEiRCyUQb7JHypT0c9Jlrto4VvBN5bTAZnpQgHiHcggrVZ6 7tLclhWnim+uHMjMenef2tfdKAchCSgkTo1EA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Gy84NjkP9ALkMQsBc+rFnxAnfKY3cvC4qkSOSljUbxtahiiHoRRlbckQditmgqa/1h DtqMOpEtZpTRoCNgXFHLSCPWTfSy1Die6MEVexm6bbUQjbPsVoilucthhhe85PEJsvgO VuFv7rdGuJo9vjenQgiYVjYlENYwPtRgBnfz0= Received: by 10.216.54.78 with SMTP id h56mr255857wec.2.1287718608161; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.137.193 with SMTP id x1ls1068300bkt.0.p; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.146 with SMTP id t18mr97117bkk.8.1287718607250; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.146 with SMTP id t18mr97116bkk.8.1287718607228; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f50.google.com (mail-fx0-f50.google.com [209.85.161.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g12si1121947bkl.1.2010.10.21.20.36.46; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.50; Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14so336078fxm.37 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.221.5 with SMTP id y5mr379045muq.122.1287718605939; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.86.70 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:36:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87a1d6be-f2d2-48df-8fbb-229f40962863@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <8832676c-b69c-40d6-bead-b2363df50577@x4g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <68ed33b3-7a17-4347-a25d-fd310520acf9@z17g2000prz.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:36:45 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: comics From: Jameson Orndorff To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jtorndorff@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jtorndorff@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Luke, despite what Lindar constantly babbles on about, our method does NOT shun {cu}. It never has. It never will. (Or at least, I never will.) We just teach it later. We teach it, in my mind, better, because we don't teach it like a crutch. We put terminator as the emphasis, with {cu} mentioned as a tool that can be used, instead of vise versa. I think it promotes a stronger fundamental knowledge of when terminators are needed. And using {cu} to cut out of a quote should be something any competent lojbanist can do - kudos to anyone who does it. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>> .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna >> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously >> foolish. >> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and >> we're good, I think. > I totally just forgot the li'u, but it's still ok since the {cu} tells th= e > user that this is outside of the quote since the bridi inside the quote h= as > already had it's selbri and the {nu} has also had it's {cusku} selbri, th= e > only selbri left to {cu} is the main bridi. =A0More goodness of cu, I was= able > to avoid {ku'o li'u kei ku} (not that it was best practice to drop the li= 'u > =A0 =3Dp > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Lindar wrote: >> >> > .i mi finti lo lujvo >> "I invent a lujvo." >> >> .i mi ranju tavla fi tu'a la lindar .u'i zo'o >> I persist-ish talk about that thing with Lindar (lol). >> (I assume you meant ranji) You want {pu je ca'o}, I believe. >> >> > .i lo mi pilno be zo jbosevyvajpre be'o simsa lo glico pe zoi .gy self >> > important .gy >> My -user of "jbosevyvajpre"-ish similar thing an English thing of >> 'self important'. >> You formed a tanru here. If you had used ku/cu it would have read with >> a selbri, but I think you wanted to say {.i lo se valsi be zo >> jbosevyvajpre bei lo jbobau be'o ku simsa lo se valsi be zoi gy. self- >> important .gy. bei lo glibau be'o ku}, which is like "The meaning of >> the word 'jbosevyvajpre' is like the meaning of the word 'self- >> important'.". >> >> > .i mi cusku mu'i lo nu lo glico cu na xlarai >> I express because the English-thing isn't the worst. >> This is about where I lost you, so I have no suggestions here. >> >> > .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna >> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously >> foolish. >> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and >> we're good, I think. (It still parses AFAIK but it's confusing to >> leave a quote dangling like that.) Also, in response, I totally agree >> here. However, the language should be defined in itself, not in >> English. The English definition should derive from the original >> Lojban, not the other way around. >> >> > .i va'i mi tugni >> In other words, I agree. >> You kinda lost me in the middle, so I'm not sure with what you're >> agreeing. >> >> .i lo jbobau cu zmadu lo glibau lo nu se valsi >> Lojban is more than English being a meaning. >> lo te zmadu is a ka, not a nu. Should be {.i lo jbobau ku zmadu lo >> glibau lo ka valsi ce'u} or somesuch. "Lojban is more than English in >> meaning.". I'm still not sure exactly what is meant here. However, >> Lojban certainly does have a wider range of meanings and possible >> meanings in general. That's part of the design. >> >> > .i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u bebna fa lo nu cusku lo du'u lo glibau cu na = se >> > tirna mi >> However, I opine that the foolish thing is expressing fact English >> isn't heard by me. >> {mi jinvi} is stating that you opine, {pe'i} is actually indicative of >> an opinion. It's like the difference between {.i .ui mi klama} and {.i >> mi gleki lo nu klama}. The first one actually expresses the happiness. >> Also, a selsku is a se du'u, not the predication itself. So...are you >> saying that you are also foolish for disregarding English...or...? >> >> Plenty of errors, but the important thing is that you are trying. >> .i ki'e do mi ckire fi lo nu do se bangu la .lojban. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.