From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDht4TmBBoE9lwvLg@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 21 22:06:58 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P99qA-0003G6-8c; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:58 -0700 Received: by ywk9 with SMTP id 9sf293216ywk.16 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5SgSDYUDttSAcgpa7SmNI1YP/yLwIS5TZFP5oR63mjU=; b=S4TehsG9d6ptSIP6WgiEe2pvLehz+6JDTFz5OHZ8PM+v616vitfkAQF8H5D6qzxU/F z5vd463CaOSWul4gF/ydPY3SSsy+r98U9dYZymaVe38qtEZlqxcrOvFYsNtblPdfzb60 kBaJ/E4KMEFBaoJbSJOqXzTErEIsK0MxTEdb4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BThZcoFQJIg47n40kTg75fPZBG+2/PU82MQNrlsI7xaixv11wytlJTKza2x8GS9ZZd Q/kPCzQrmw7+U2UGkBDyMPwf0yF1uOlGtbXgk14Xw7fepEMgw+il9Frdtp9soYfq1vpv wTt3laD12LvpuRrtUhNDi/2nFRbnqON9hku5E= Received: by 10.90.65.4 with SMTP id n4mr129667aga.27.1287724001941; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls1123072ibr.2.p; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.33.74 with SMTP id g10mr492522ibd.13.1287724001359; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.33.74 with SMTP id g10mr492521ibd.13.1287724001313; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j25si1538382ibb.4.2010.10.21.22.06.40; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by iwn4 with SMTP id 4so436014iwn.2 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.174.73 with SMTP id u9mr1656185icz.79.1287724000147; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87a1d6be-f2d2-48df-8fbb-229f40962863@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <8832676c-b69c-40d6-bead-b2363df50577@x4g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <68ed33b3-7a17-4347-a25d-fd310520acf9@z17g2000prz.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:06:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: comics From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e862c98fa0e04932d9ba9 --90e6ba6e862c98fa0e04932d9ba9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, I know. I just enjoy ribbing lindar about places were cu is better. Similar to how he enjoys pointing out errors that he ascribes to an overuse of cu where terminators would have worked "better" ;) All in good fun. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Jameson Orndorff wrote: > Luke, despite what Lindar constantly babbles on about, our method does > NOT shun {cu}. It never has. It never will. (Or at least, I never > will.) We just teach it later. We teach it, in my mind, better, > because we don't teach it like a crutch. We put terminator as the > emphasis, with {cu} mentioned as a tool that can be used, instead of > vise versa. I think it promotes a stronger fundamental knowledge of > when terminators are needed. > > And using {cu} to cut out of a quote should be something any competent > lojbanist can do - kudos to anyone who does it. > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > >>> .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna > >> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously > >> foolish. > >> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and > >> we're good, I think. > > I totally just forgot the li'u, but it's still ok since the {cu} tells > the > > user that this is outside of the quote since the bridi inside the quote > has > > already had it's selbri and the {nu} has also had it's {cusku} selbri, > the > > only selbri left to {cu} is the main bridi. More goodness of cu, I was > able > > to avoid {ku'o li'u kei ku} (not that it was best practice to drop the > li'u > > =p > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Lindar wrote: > >> > >> > .i mi finti lo lujvo > >> "I invent a lujvo." > >> > >> .i mi ranju tavla fi tu'a la lindar .u'i zo'o > >> I persist-ish talk about that thing with Lindar (lol). > >> (I assume you meant ranji) You want {pu je ca'o}, I believe. > >> > >> > .i lo mi pilno be zo jbosevyvajpre be'o simsa lo glico pe zoi .gy self > >> > important .gy > >> My -user of "jbosevyvajpre"-ish similar thing an English thing of > >> 'self important'. > >> You formed a tanru here. If you had used ku/cu it would have read with > >> a selbri, but I think you wanted to say {.i lo se valsi be zo > >> jbosevyvajpre bei lo jbobau be'o ku simsa lo se valsi be zoi gy. self- > >> important .gy. bei lo glibau be'o ku}, which is like "The meaning of > >> the word 'jbosevyvajpre' is like the meaning of the word 'self- > >> important'.". > >> > >> > .i mi cusku mu'i lo nu lo glico cu na xlarai > >> I express because the English-thing isn't the worst. > >> This is about where I lost you, so I have no suggestions here. > >> > >> > .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna > >> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolously > >> foolish. > >> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-quote and > >> we're good, I think. (It still parses AFAIK but it's confusing to > >> leave a quote dangling like that.) Also, in response, I totally agree > >> here. However, the language should be defined in itself, not in > >> English. The English definition should derive from the original > >> Lojban, not the other way around. > >> > >> > .i va'i mi tugni > >> In other words, I agree. > >> You kinda lost me in the middle, so I'm not sure with what you're > >> agreeing. > >> > >> .i lo jbobau cu zmadu lo glibau lo nu se valsi > >> Lojban is more than English being a meaning. > >> lo te zmadu is a ka, not a nu. Should be {.i lo jbobau ku zmadu lo > >> glibau lo ka valsi ce'u} or somesuch. "Lojban is more than English in > >> meaning.". I'm still not sure exactly what is meant here. However, > >> Lojban certainly does have a wider range of meanings and possible > >> meanings in general. That's part of the design. > >> > >> > .i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u bebna fa lo nu cusku lo du'u lo glibau cu na > se > >> > tirna mi > >> However, I opine that the foolish thing is expressing fact English > >> isn't heard by me. > >> {mi jinvi} is stating that you opine, {pe'i} is actually indicative of > >> an opinion. It's like the difference between {.i .ui mi klama} and {.i > >> mi gleki lo nu klama}. The first one actually expresses the happiness. > >> Also, a selsku is a se du'u, not the predication itself. So...are you > >> saying that you are also foolish for disregarding English...or...? > >> > >> Plenty of errors, but the important thing is that you are trying. > >> .i ki'e do mi ckire fi lo nu do se bangu la .lojban. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --90e6ba6e862c98fa0e04932d9ba9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I know. =A0I just enjoy ribbing lindar about places were cu is better.= =A0Similar to how he enjoys pointing out errors that he ascribes to an ove= ruse of cu where terminators would have worked "better" ;)
All in good fun.

On Thu, Oct 2= 1, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com> wrote:
Luke, despite what Lindar constantly babbles on about, our method does
NOT shun {cu}. It never has. It never will. (Or at least, I never
will.) We just teach it later. We teach it, in my mind, better,
because we don't teach it like a crutch. We put terminator as the
emphasis, with {cu} mentioned as a tool that can be used, instead of
vise versa. I think it promotes a stronger fundamental knowledge of
when terminators are needed.

And using {cu} to cut out of a quote should be something any competent
lojbanist can do - kudos to anyone who does it.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna
>> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolo= usly
>> foolish.
>> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-q= uote and
>> we're good, I think.
> I totally just forgot the li'u, but it's still ok since the {c= u} tells the
> user that this is outside of the quote since the bridi inside the quot= e has
> already had it's selbri and the {nu} has also had it's {cusku}= selbri, the
> only selbri left to {cu} is the main bridi. =A0More goodness of cu, I = was able
> to avoid {ku'o li'u kei ku} (not that it was best practice to = drop the li'u
> =A0 =3Dp
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > .i mi finti lo lujvo
>> "I invent a lujvo."
>>
>> .i mi ranju tavla fi tu'a la lindar .u'i zo'o
>> I persist-ish talk about that thing with Lindar (lol).
>> (I assume you meant ranji) You want {pu je ca'o}, I believe. >>
>> > .i lo mi pilno be zo jbosevyvajpre be'o simsa lo glico pe= zoi .gy self
>> > important .gy
>> My -user of "jbosevyvajpre"-ish similar thing an English= thing of
>> 'self important'.
>> You formed a tanru here. If you had used ku/cu it would have read = with
>> a selbri, but I think you wanted to say {.i lo se valsi be zo
>> jbosevyvajpre bei lo jbobau be'o ku simsa lo se valsi be zoi g= y. self-
>> important .gy. bei lo glibau be'o ku}, which is like "The= meaning of
>> the word 'jbosevyvajpre' is like the meaning of the word &= #39;self-
>> important'.".
>>
>> > .i mi cusku mu'i lo nu lo glico cu na xlarai
>> I express because the English-thing isn't the worst.
>> This is about where I lost you, so I have no suggestions here.
>>
>> > .i lo nu cusku lu mi na zgana da poi glico cu xalbo bebna
>> Expressing "I do not observe that which is English is frivolo= usly
>> foolish.
>> Here's where I pick up again to some degree. Pop in that end-q= uote and
>> we're good, I think. (It still parses AFAIK but it's confu= sing to
>> leave a quote dangling like that.) Also, in response, I totally ag= ree
>> here. However, the language should be defined in itself, not in >> English. The English definition should derive from the original >> Lojban, not the other way around.
>>
>> > .i va'i mi tugni
>> In other words, I agree.
>> You kinda lost me in the middle, so I'm not sure with what you= 're
>> agreeing.
>>
>> .i lo jbobau cu zmadu lo glibau lo nu se valsi
>> Lojban is more than English being a meaning.
>> lo te zmadu is a ka, not a nu. Should be {.i lo jbobau ku zmadu lo=
>> glibau lo ka valsi ce'u} or somesuch. "Lojban is more tha= n English in
>> meaning.". I'm still not sure exactly what is meant here.= However,
>> Lojban certainly does have a wider range of meanings and possible<= br> >> meanings in general. That's part of the design.
>>
>> > .i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u bebna fa lo nu cusku lo du&#= 39;u lo glibau cu na se
>> > tirna mi
>> However, I opine that the foolish thing is expressing fact English=
>> isn't heard by me.
>> {mi jinvi} is stating that you opine, {pe'i} is actually indic= ative of
>> an opinion. It's like the difference between {.i .ui mi klama}= and {.i
>> mi gleki lo nu klama}. The first one actually expresses the happin= ess.
>> Also, a selsku is a se du'u, not the predication itself. So...= are you
>> saying that you are also foolish for disregarding English...or...?=
>>
>> Plenty of errors, but the important thing is that you are trying.<= br> >> .i ki'e do mi ckire fi lo nu do se bangu la .lojban.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are= subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--90e6ba6e862c98fa0e04932d9ba9--