From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCF4ITmBBoEL2aZqw@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 21 23:32:55 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9BBL-0001Vv-1l; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:55 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf265685wyb.16 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=d6GV5sriDk71Sg3pOejnptUrWMsBXVEGXnNWQcZ9g/Y=; b=qKXwRejjNMbwDnhzxTbcBawiA+KoK+dfN/N3gY47Ifk4acW4RFtAKXXKoFkUSFsB+I Vz8xzcj8GUcKP6QzmqFfVr3Hlt2Mt7Yls47/x+xYqF+vSKTPd5H3E31bQwu22ZhzjXLv BGdqIr3oQQfvOlxiwqsehT+RL4gSyj4ZlQ7GE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=OlzHUqmO+Aj+yCdfi9gTpKT5lh0ufUqrcjxIA0XV98YY9rbOBPAG1UagtNXQzsaQVS VlOS9ZbobVQkwttKFShbibKXoJ1/A0elr9G19cWnXjoo7pqRIuXCaiZxMGm4moRGJ8af iyhAer5V1TWU9a4xPfRn0XU4YFOT8BJx3E/Z4= Received: by 10.216.181.20 with SMTP id k20mr260038wem.24.1287729157805; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.3.19 with SMTP id 19ls1144422wbl.3.p; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.146.196 with SMTP id i4mr99804wbv.3.1287729156570; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.146.196 with SMTP id i4mr99803wbv.3.1287729156537; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q27si859407wbv.1.2010.10.21.23.32.35; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.182; Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42so475694wyb.27 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.176.8 with SMTP id a8mr10623842wem.93.1287729155330; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.62.208 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:32:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Stela Selckiku Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 02:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] mistakes To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Which brings up another point. =A0How acceptable > are "mistakes" in lojban? =A0I know I abuse English > in all kinds of not-technically-correct ways. I think they're slightly more acceptable than they used to be. The problem is that Lojban is such a young language. At first, a few years back, every time a word was used was one of the first times that word had ever been used. We were trying to set Lojban off on the right foot, to do things properly, because we knew later usage would imitate the earliest usage. Now most words have a little bit of history to them, and there's a lot of us who know something about what we're doing and have some understanding of a lot of the language. Now Lojban isn't quite as likely to be confused and sent astray by a single badly chosen word. But it's still relatively easy to confuse, certainly compared with a giant language like English; nothing I say in this sentence can make any substantial alteration in the course of English. Lojban is young enough it could still be confused into imitating unlojbanic patterns if they're repeated a few times, or appear somewhere prominent; witness the recent snowballing effect of the one word "roldei" appearing on a Twitter account many of us pay attention to. Context is everything. Private conversations are less important to get perfect than public conversations, which are less important to get perfect than published documents or prominent names and titles. Words and structures that have been used less are also more fragile than those we use all the time. There's still a surprising amount of the gismu list (for instance) that's very rarely been used at all, and we're all liable to imitate the first times we see those gismu places used. For instance "bilni" supposedly can mean "is strongly organized", but I've never yet seen such a use, nor much of any use of "bilni" at all, and you could probably radically alter my understanding of "bilni" with a well placed sentence. I'm probably altering our understanding of "bilni" right now just by this oblique reference! OTOH I'd say you can be quite casual with "klama", as it would take a lot for you to be able to alter my understanding of it after the thousands of times I've already encountered it. mi'e .telselkik. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.