From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhDMtobmBBoEyB-VbQ@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 22 07:10:41 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9IKH-0004vV-90; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:40 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf465980wwb.16 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IoIVjUk5f1rlE/KptWxK9U4KfuTx80ICQP/N9bSaFFY=; b=T3UTwyon3S7tDWKxGfozgTtnduuHJffLSKtTVYWD3+axVDNxXSEpN3OiT2QdXZAjyQ 3AKUA7W6ZlfYF+dTc8Pe/++SRjR+cXwx7VRU/6mwg+x9xBPY1gXf4cvpJrqmJocELJ32 c3/dKo9AU+Lc88nL8I8PES3x/h9JClc+SFoLQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aAy6DJKWk6kkjTecOiHZfKy61U8Lg6eivdM8kswLtPTm52jvsOT1llS2WkkQNJ43XE fZoT4Szj5xQhOYN4AerNr/7fohuax3rsypauO5LbxY6MxXr0lKpHlOrqJB+nkyMPPrPw mO0Xj0cNgJLBs41LOJ0TLG1lE4vORQrPkOv1E= Received: by 10.216.65.1 with SMTP id e1mr329437wed.23.1287756620430; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.24.73 with SMTP id w49ls314677eew.4.p; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.127.75 with SMTP id c51mr71901eei.25.1287756619307; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.127.75 with SMTP id c51mr71900eei.25.1287756619282; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f54.google.com (mail-ew0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q11si1963697eeh.4.2010.10.22.07.10.18; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.54; Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so599378ewy.27 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.160.17 with SMTP id t17mr520605wek.103.1287756618045; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.62.208 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:09:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:09:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] mistakes To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Another example of this kind of snowballing thing. =A0{xalka}. =A0I've se= en it > used a few times and so have used it myself in places like {.ui mi pinxe = lo > mutce xalka .uisai}, completely unaware of the existence of {jikru} which > seems far more appropriate in most circumstances. I don't think it's exactly an error to say {mi pinxe lo xalka}, since you are drinking alcohol (along with other things), but it's certainly a strange habit we've had! Thanks for spreading the word about {jikru}, Luke. Once we're all saying {jikru} all the time you should feel proud every time you see it! Part of why I've chosen to focus on Lojban as a conlanger is that what I most like to invent about language is the subtle qualities of meaning, the depths of semantics and usage, and I especially enjoy seeing what I've created come to life in a community. So for me Lojban is a golden opportunity: a combination of an active speaking community and a severe lack of vocabulary. At first I expected that the way I'd express myself creatively in Lojban would be to invent a lot of lujvo. I still do plan to invent a lot of lujvo, eventually, and I've made a few here and there. But as I plumbed the depths of Lojban I discovered that much of the vocabulary that our living language is in need of is already there for us in the gismu list! So I've been enjoying the art of bringing dead dark parts of the gimste into light and life. And I do think there's a lot of art to it. The surface meanings of the gismu are already given to us, the denotative meanings. But I believe there's a lot more to a living word than what it denotes. Obviously {jikru} has been sitting there denoting liquor forever. But we've been saying {mi pinxe lo xalka}, oblivious of it. As you bring it to our attention and we start to say {mi pinxe lo jikru}, there's something new about {jikru} that's been created. Something other than meaning, even. It will probably start to develop connotation, now that we've started to think it and say it more often. But there's something even more fundamental than any of its meaning, which is the living connection between us as speakers and that meaning. Even without changing at all as itself, it's changed tremendously in relation to us. Suddenly it doesn't just mean liquor in dead theory on the page, it means it to us, and it's what comes to mind when we want to talk about that. The pattern of what words we know and use as a community is tremendously complicated, living and breathing, massive. So here's another perspective on it: Lojban I think can be affected strongly by our errors, but many or most of our errors continue to be errors of omission, things we fail to speak, things we fail to explore. We've been making the invisible, intangible error this whole time of mostly forgetting that {jikru} exists, forgetting to bring it to life. By enthusiastically speaking and exploring our language we inevitably commit some small affirmative errors, but those are relatively easy to notice and correct, and they're overwhelmed by the many errors of omission that we correct by giving life to old and new things that we ought to be ready to say. mi'e .telselkik. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.