From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCbyYbmBBoE1M7Dnw@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 22 07:50:23 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Iwl-0001Ao-17; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:22 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf495778wwb.16 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=L8KEUo8Igvu0r9bTt8opTcXCs3BOqU/CE6vqDgrqDLs=; b=u6XGFYB4wxF2t6zkHtzqXX1zzUFJbu/lzmTk8j8BrTmP9Ks7kaTDfjwz6KB3fX0MBK 7lClNOLmQAyj4SODP1bRSaCvZEEbODapkECSyGdgG3CodxbBFEPF3YC6JciB0JnkHahS bl6B2Kc30mQH5VJNA9cFIZlwq2ZyB1QmYr3n4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=OPvSbdIOge88/v6rU+oJUpLJSwryMWMD/siHLxy0Ztu5CbmqVMpXWqDG319qZeMNgN TzfKnmQCGkrYSdZbslCmt0PMlOAN8a4W2i3/awBug+7bynLCxssWenc7GXFXN/0b5mGp WYMYo35oSguesURuRkQYgz6nB0KC24PdrGZQc= Received: by 10.216.232.5 with SMTP id m5mr89761weq.8.1287759003110; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.137.193 with SMTP id x1ls1304077bkt.0.p; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.1 with SMTP id u1mr129517bkw.13.1287759002083; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.156.1 with SMTP id u1mr129515bkw.13.1287759002038; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f49.google.com (mail-fx0-f49.google.com [209.85.161.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g12si1433182bkl.1.2010.10.22.07.50.00; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.49; Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so736081fxm.36 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.243.129 with SMTP id k1mr4430213wer.57.1287759000176; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:50:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.62.208 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:49:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:49:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] mistakes To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/22 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > > What rule? When? I've been speaking Lojban since a couple of weeks > after I started learning it, and nobody has ever told me I couldn't do > it. And of course I have made my good share of mistakes. > > I guess the difference between "severe criticism" and "helpful > corrections" has to do as much with the giver as with the receiver. > Not everybody is always extremely polite, and some people are too > thin-skinned, what can you do? Well for you, and logically by process of elimination everyone who's succeeded in learning Lojban and joining our little community, the criticism was not enough to discourage you. To many many people, such as many beginning students (and some accomplished speakers) that I correspond with privately because they don't want to subject their attempts to the treatment they'd receive on these lists, or such as (se'o) myself when I was first studying, it's more than enough stress to keep them from persisting. Withering criticism or impracticality alone are enough to keep most people from an activity; the combination of both has been enough to keep Lojbanistan a very quiet place. I don't think it's an entirely bad thing, as our stern attitude towards any lazy drifting backwards into established habits has allowed us to create and explore a very unique language. But it's something we ought to be honest and aware of about the history of our language and the nature of our community. In the history of our language, and to some extent to this day (except of course on Hedwig), you cannot attempt to speak Lojban unless you are willing and able to be told very directly that you have failed. mi'e .telselkik. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.