From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRDb94vmBBoEkgaN-A@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 23 08:14:55 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9fo0-00044A-V3; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:54 -0700 Received: by yxe42 with SMTP id 42sf2291149yxe.16 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2Do6hSAw8NmbR8o5EQeUo8OHojXKNYBwkSM0JF0n/jM=; b=iDRxEJIZpIkN7o0b1WYCJq7rsEtKlPj822o0XwvAC55oKNbGXHTAdab6oT4pz0CKeG PRaMxd4CzceEi4VA9zXs86XjK2mX3jOdQEDkGg79LXl/EtCa5D82dX3W2n6p7yidISGI VpbckAIqPJyn925m3o0zXBRxtcCn4nWzVk19s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=5/G2M4/1/knWVJcHM48GJtiJIpD+lVImd2+EGBkoqCAifg040aqWzD9VHstyNT7wiP 0gYF+/Fi+Ft+/Go11fjmh+wgRqLXz5wNVe6vCxXzZ4LxU522gjdCUu293tGHs3stKQoh MxOa5Pt5tRekwPwP5DhZpcf0UErWHL0cATobo= Received: by 10.100.251.11 with SMTP id y11mr64401anh.58.1287846875160; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.28.24 with SMTP id f24ls1378936anj.0.p; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.111.13 with SMTP id j13mr108873anc.46.1287846873740; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by g20g2000prg.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 166.190.6.96 References: <2e5916b3-0d1a-4a20-bcc9-a65336245874@29g2000prb.googlegroups.com> <4CC228C5.3060509@gmail.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101013 Ubuntu/10.04 (lucid) Firefox/3.6.11,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <99563fa3-0c6c-4ae7-9d1f-1cd9439eeb40@g20g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: mistakes From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 And, you just kinda... went the opposite way there. "We don't agree enough." "Nuh-uh!" You kinda proved the point there. =P If that didn't work for you, then I'll try to say what I'm thinking. SUPER SENTAI ITEMISING ACTION!! 1. Express just as much positive as negative, if not more. Too often we have, "No, you're wrong." and little to never we have, "That was awesome.". This was one of the points in the article that I liked the most. Give points for effort, find something nice to say, be sincere! My homeboy ctino is on cinchcast now and recorded some stuff for us. He had a bit of a grammar fumble, but his accent is really good, especially for a merko. So I went over different ways to express what he meant, and I complemented him on his accent. His R's are sexy and his vowels are very clean, by the way. Even if you don't agree entirely or at all, find something nice to say in addition to your criticism. "Hey Lindar, I think that article is complete bollocks, but I see where you're going. X and Y are why it's a dumb idea, but A and B sound to me like a better idea." 2. Keep jbodau off of the beginner list. Corrections good, jbozau good, jbodau bad. Make a relevant thread in the main list if you need to jbodau about it. Thank you, Luke, for your perfect example. 3. Not every conversation needs to degrade into jbodau. Just because somebody forgot a fa'orma'o and it parsed incorrectly doesn't mean the whole conversation is now about fa'orma'o. If it's necessary to correct something, then try to follow a pattern like: > .i lo broda be lo brode ku brodi Looks like you made a mistake in there. There's no selbri because broda and brodi form a tanru. You need to terminate that all the way ( lo broda be lo brode ku be'o ku brodi - or use cu ). Yeah, so that's awesome. *response* 4. The perfection game is totally relevant. We argue all the time. See? 5. The idea or concept of not wanting correction is a bit counter- intuitive to the ideas of Lojban (excepting xedbig) and to the types of people that would learn or do use it. I do not wish to snuff opinion or wish to turn Lojbanistan into a saucer cult, so please share some methods of voting/discussing that have been successful in other groups with our sort of model. We certainly have been more harmonious with regard to goals, though. We have quite a rallying cry behind this BPFK stuff and what Robin has got going on (perfect example). Certainly freedom of expression with mutual respect is something I definitely want, and we have that up to a certain point. So perhaps my goals are closer to the freedom + respect end rather than the "total absolute agreement" end. Well played! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.