From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDdyZzmBBoEfBAyMA@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 26 11:59:05 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PAojV-00051D-8X; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:59:05 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf1772382qwh.16 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=T6ZLVLpA2yIL6vgJLDJfEZBBdlImNwT6P75Nw8CvKC4=; b=5D2AQOh8IlZeI0cDqi2/KYHzza0OYKoKCkmbMlt2zeHeSOEUi9VQkAxi/NnomuvOi3 V/GkO746D2+g7v+NwG9903RLumSueJrky89sEPcyRNL0iT7AP0/umQTZsc9BCtVh2ATu uLJUzZQB82FKoUO1ov8piiH4I/i9+RSlrs8AY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=kkIJ8kHDaO90TfxW9V8OzQfU17G/29qdPGisuDmy0XDE0AYYNOmuqTJhFtXn0jLtJ+ qkQBzDaGRHL9Hjqw9JlJX1knIi+e8ONkLcb/8oatufbVzKAi0Fjk2EYgBB0fVLaIEGRM Bd6TaiTb3IiwdknaCQNPTWVgVPthslRf0gB3c= Received: by 10.229.43.139 with SMTP id w11mr402533qce.22.1288119517781; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.69.77 with SMTP id y13ls926qci.3.p; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.124.209 with SMTP id v17mr542886qcr.21.1288119516987; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.124.209 with SMTP id v17mr542884qcr.21.1288119516909; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f50.google.com (mail-qw0-f50.google.com [209.85.216.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id s17si1871905qcq.13.2010.10.26.11.58.35; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.50; Received: by qwk4 with SMTP id 4so3030757qwk.9 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.183.70 with SMTP id cf6mr506357qcb.289.1288119515742; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.233.132 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:58:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:58:35 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] vrici cimei From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Oleksii Melnyk wrote: > > > 2010/10/26 Michael Turniansky >> >> Not only a non-donkey steps only once on thin ice > > that is equal to =ABda xislu gi'e papo'oroi stapa=BB =B1 ji'a/si'a (xasli, not xislu. Xislu aren't known for the steppingness. Not to worry, I get them confused all the time myself) Yes, it is, although I might even make that stronger by adding a "ro" at the beginning. >> >> =A0The problem with that formulation ["li'anai lo broda cu brode"] is th= at a broda DOES brode. =A0So >> clearly it does. > > Then I've missed the point of "even". > "Even X does Y" implies "there are one or more non X that do Y", "X does Y, and it is somewhat surprising/counterintuitive that X does Y" and "anything which exhibits a quaility Q of not-being-able-to-Y which measures somewhere between 0 and X's value of Q (inclusive) can Y, but probably nothing whose value of Q is higher than X's value of Q". (My restatement of) your formulation of "ji'a ro xasli cu papo'oroi stapa" actually works quite well, actually, to fulfill those conditions. My concerns had been to show that donkeys AND non-donkeys do and to emphasize the suprise value of donkeys doing it. I think your simple "ji'a" handles that well. --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.