From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDG66fmBBoEZjV8Lg@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 28 15:14:44 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PBak5-0007cV-9n; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:44 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf3421200gyd.16 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3o14OfwKHLUYj19MAP/ulFPXS0gkEucnC1UpvtTaeZs=; b=SpaTSxhYRnwzC6TsX6D4EFv8eZ8xrlDtr9MJaBBWUUYK2G93fetQksaf1MNlbcorsl 9ESWR2QYUgG0YGkw9SHPHq0uAlQqcO7msVcVXNfmiuQ17c5nPJJuCZV05vkmdPsdU4v8 +A7HsFNrjq2Z1R0RjDi4Z6E7pkf6+7mHqPD84= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=UDKExzUwT79EMY3yoJ4HTeRCnHMu72bhaUbbpNxrtTPo7DjKl4c7NE3agTvRw/ksx6 bL4LHwcpTrRUndwSnqskO6kiU2N9euMNigTaE+2Bztk+Z/OVPlPJnqlDKKcs/Zt5lOQO X84TzdgqW21rIgxfp7B1kX7qMfxPEZWghtZhU= Received: by 10.150.172.6 with SMTP id u6mr1757059ybe.35.1288304070600; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.138.19 with SMTP id l19ls894215ybd.5.p; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.154.3 with SMTP id g3mr1126129ybo.20.1288304069980; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.154.3 with SMTP id g3mr1126128ybo.20.1288304069951; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id x21si458252yhc.1.2010.10.28.15.14.28; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.123; Received: (qmail 77201 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Oct 2010 22:14:28 -0000 Message-ID: <545421.75908.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 3U9.41EVM1k0nBFiLNsSemzQlaeHH58b9ZsO4tbE12GUkOX ddIMnuWw0misIcnelGgridMRJJuLkPgregH9_HYQ7W4SL0Me6BMZ3EtpYZMU VaiC2Um2y8T4P0.KQ0VEIBpZ_LAwFa5sl9972RcwOt7A32rJmGmx1Wjc_WCl eiXjp524JTdeFfoFKkn.5cY6gCYikaXS6zNnD1O9cPBWys9gHO1_qvUayLpM VSkK5MzZjJ.3OXZsxFDg2s9MYe4vt2Gh1CYEVT6Lt8UCpsLCSrW_zyX_YuzS SgPQiK9_Y4s658eLT05p1GfeV0WvEdfa5e7j7W2UL_GkZo3Gqpe38UBU9eIG eR6oHsh6U8YC1KcjmDFA- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:28 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/504.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.284920 References: <43c4b5ca-0867-48ed-b8bc-6d6da12ecc77@n3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Counterfactual Conditions To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <43c4b5ca-0867-48ed-b8bc-6d6da12ecc77@n3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Nice, but your 2 is merely a (truth functional) biconditional, not a counterfactual (non-truth functional) conditional. Counterfactual involve moving into the subjunctive or setting up alternate worlds, not just mucking aout with truth function in this one. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lindar To: lojban Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 4:37:07 PM Subject: [lojban] Re: Counterfactual Conditions > (1) is an indicative conditional Expressed with the appropriate mu'i/ki'u/ri'a/bai/etc. > (2) is a counterfactual conditional .o/jo/gu'o/gi'e/go If I understand it correctly, one necessitates the other in this instance. Where {.i ganai carvi gi mi bevri lo santa} says that I carry the umbrella if it rains, {.i go carvi gi mi bevri lo santa} says that if it rains, I bring my umbrella, and if I bring my umbrella, it rains. (Feel free to correct me on this.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.