From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCotavmBBoEnafZKQ@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 29 07:31:20 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PBpzA-0005kh-6J; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:20 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf4516616gyd.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=IMy9pSmk12ksbWkwy91nwHhrUvxoCHxxgHYT0vp0wcI=; b=EcMvAis15EVlmpFEroq3YBamX2XwZnPoNegGVyOpB5Me/Xwx4QCU0kaMRFIFaZgJ42 PlDnTX3OX1eyvV5RxxJSPsg9LmxAs0bSiWrggniYgOjmrL8n7m3D0llvNqG9ay0/gFrB ZG7lGzfSOT68pLjnFymXI9qW9S4xKl9T+0y/s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=4NffBovdfuHIio8U4Cvx8ND0GLLWE0GwkCcqq+95Vp2cRofeWW4hJg4Gw6BjC0fG2/ XlePkjw3hmNrS4dghtLlGTPBfLjo0FhatDAkydrT8+Udhvm471tQpGoX2dNSUBgSFz80 35ev3kLgeWyVcvsb4JO2CdjXH5moriUcG1Bn4= Received: by 10.150.167.3 with SMTP id p3mr1842497ybe.65.1288362664320; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.102.24 with SMTP id z24ls1670804ybb.3.p; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.53.14 with SMTP id b14mr1720919yba.31.1288362663174; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.53.14 with SMTP id b14mr1720917yba.31.1288362663099; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w3si725271ybe.13.2010.10.29.07.31.02; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.54; Received: by mail-gw0-f54.google.com with SMTP id a18so2487846gwa.41 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.76.145 with SMTP id e17mr3095881ick.62.1288362661782; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <760229.32777.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <322766.28658.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:31:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Fw: xagrai and superlatives From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba2124fdcc262c0493c24edb --90e6ba2124fdcc262c0493c24edb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the point that he was trying to make is that with your formulation, xorxes, is that you lose the information about from which rafsi you're pulling the information from. i.e. if I say {nelrai =3D ko'e traji lo ka ko'a nelci ce'u kei ko'o ko'i} I= 've lost whether the x1 comes from nelci or traji. I've seen people use {ko'a} and {fo'a} to differentiate which places come from which component word. For example, the earlier nelrai definition would be: {fo'a no'u ko'e traji lo ka ko'a nelci ce'u kei fo'o fo'i}. Where ko'V represents a place that comes from nelci1, nelci2, etc... and fo'V represents the places of traji1,2,etc... Of course, I'm not quite sure how that system would fare when it comes to lujvo of more than 1 rafsi... "vo'V"? "ko'Vpire"? 2010/10/29 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:48 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > >> > >> ko'a brodyrai ko'e (ko'i ko'o ko'u ...) > >> =3D ko'a traji lo ka ce'u broda (ko'i ko'o ko'u ...) kei zi'o ko'e > > > > Sorry, I find this way of explaining it confusing. Can you relate the > > ko'a ko'e etc to the places in: > > > > t1=3Dx1 traji loka xamgu x2 x3 kei t3 t4 > > What part do you find confusing? It's just ordinary Lojban. > > The problem with your presentation is that it doesn't tell us anything > about the order of the arguments in the lujvo. Are we to assume that > they will appear in the lujvo in the same order as they appear in the > expansion? If so, then to make it equivalent to mine you would have to > write it as: > > t1=3Dx1 traji fo t4 fe loka xamgu x2 x3 kei (t3=3Dzi'o) > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --90e6ba2124fdcc262c0493c24edb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the point that he was trying to make is that with your formulation,= xorxes, is that you lose the information about from which rafsi you're= pulling the information from.

i.e. if I say {nelrai =3D= ko'e traji lo ka ko'a nelci ce'u kei ko'o ko'i} I'= ve lost whether the x1 comes from nelci or traji. =A0I've seen people u= se {ko'a} and {fo'a} to differentiate which places come from which = component word. =A0For example, the earlier nelrai definition would be:=A0<= /div>
{fo'a no'u ko'e traji lo ka ko'a nelci ce'u kei fo= 'o fo'i}. =A0Where ko'V represents a place that comes from nelc= i1, nelci2, etc... and fo'V represents the places of traji1,2,etc...

Of course, I'm not quite sure how that system would= fare when it comes to lujvo of more than 1 rafsi... =A0"vo'V"= ;? =A0"ko'Vpire"?

2010/10/2= 9 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:48 PM, A. PIE= KARSKI <totus@roge= rs.com> wrote:
>>
>> ko'a brodyrai ko'e (ko'i ko'o ko'u ...)
>> =3D ko'a traji lo ka ce'u broda (ko'i ko'o ko'= u ...) kei zi'o ko'e
>
> Sorry, I find this way of explaining it confusing.=A0 Can y= ou relate the
> ko'a ko'e etc to the places in:
>
> t1=3Dx1 traji loka xamgu x2 x3 kei t3 t4

What part do you find confusing? It's just ordinary Lojban.

The problem with your presentation is that it doesn't tell us anything<= br> about the order of the arguments in the lujvo. Are we to assume that
they will appear in the lujvo in the same order as they appear in the
expansion? If so, then to make it equivalent to mine you would have to
write it as:

=A0 t1=3Dx1 traji fo t4 fe loka xamgu x2 x3 kei (t3=3Dzi'o)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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