From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDYzavmBBoEYE4I5A@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 29 08:23:21 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PBqnU-00065c-3J; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:21 -0700 Received: by yxe42 with SMTP id 42sf4573794yxe.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=1TNKh0C/tQsQzfpZ3jIziLZfjX4SYFjk2MaVf1zRVpI=; b=mjWDzAzSulemFvo8BdIN38Myz7Gy350L0AdiKTZ5mV+U7tUMvb8kOT+NUbjNVHoc3/ xoNoNWE1DXpJTnkSXIs/XIJjKHxmaPdCohnqu/vEscBsrQ+rlcvnMlH3wyXcjyY1qaqP T+MS6unOwDb7rzxyoxHpsJ8DrWMD5bDhAP6wg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=xPsPcAB2Wwj1zQ5h5eODwsZKCl/UbQ/aCuJgwbmcYf6u/28vYyavUIIQfB7jpFgECe 6wFhDNZ59mTVxoe24uSBZ8y9tTlmrVROzwiThUzOPFQEFMioAT/PXzMohNoaNQ2+nXXV FShVg++/RX5f68oV7xAdIBEXGCmllpuGiUcQw= Received: by 10.100.32.19 with SMTP id f19mr570147anf.23.1288365784999; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.22.18 with SMTP id 18ls1006431anv.1.p; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.154.11 with SMTP id b11mr2350889ane.10.1288365784295; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.154.11 with SMTP id b11mr2350888ane.10.1288365784235; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f171.google.com (mail-gy0-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b10si725568yha.7.2010.10.29.08.23.03; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.171; Received: by mail-gy0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 12so2080415gyd.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.76.145 with SMTP id e17mr3155677ick.62.1288365783068; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:23:03 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lujvo coinage in a hypothetical Lojbanistan From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba2124fdd730260493c308e1 --90e6ba2124fdd730260493c308e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think the key point is that while it is true that lujvo need not rely exclusively on the component gismu/cmavo from which they are composed, they should be definable. It might take a really long paragraph to properly lay out all the connotations that you want to give a lujvo, but it should be possible. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Ian Johnson wrote: > By what I understand, the way the language is constructed permits lujvo to > be coined which introduce entirely new concepts which are not present in the > language initially. That is to say, the place structures of lujvo do not > fundamentally need to be able to be constructed from the gismu and cmavo > that are already defined. If I'm right about all this, how would this work > in a "real" Lojbanistan, where there are a variety of speakers with > different backgrounds and native languages (or even whose native language is > Lojban), and the only way to communicate is in Lojban? How would you > introduce your new concept to other Lojbanists in Lojban if it is indeed a > new concept to the language? > > I know that, for example, I recently coined {fazycmadau}. When trying to > explain to selckiku what I meant, I had to resort to saying that it {simsa > zo'oi nitpick} (the rest of the conversation was in Lojban). Suffice it to > say that he responded with {.ua}. > > Perhaps this is more malglico than anything, though, since as I recall > there are some natlangs (like German) that have similar systems and they > work well enough. > > mu'o mi'e latros. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --90e6ba2124fdd730260493c308e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the key point is that while it is true that lujvo need not rely exc= lusively on the component gismu/cmavo from which they are composed, they sh= ould be definable. =A0It might take a really long paragraph to properly lay= out all the connotations that you want to give a lujvo, but it should be p= ossible.

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Ian Johnso= n <blindbrav= ado@gmail.com> wrote:
By what I understand, the way the language is constructed permits lujvo to = be coined which introduce entirely new concepts which are not present in th= e language initially. That is to say, the place structures of lujvo do not = fundamentally need to be able to be constructed from the gismu and cmavo th= at are already defined. If I'm right about all this, how would this wor= k in a "real" Lojbanistan, where there are a variety of speakers = with different backgrounds and native languages (or even whose native langu= age is Lojban), and the only way to communicate is in Lojban? How would you= introduce your new concept to other Lojbanists in Lojban if it is indeed a= new concept to the language?

I know that, for example, I recently coined {fazycmadau}. When trying t= o explain to selckiku what I meant, I had to resort to saying that it {sims= a zo'oi nitpick} (the rest of the conversation was in Lojban). Suffice = it to say that he responded with {.ua}.

Perhaps this is more malglico than anything, though, since as I recall = there are some natlangs (like German) that have similar systems and they wo= rk well enough.

mu'o mi'e latros.

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