From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCxy6zmBBoE3NmTdw@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 29 12:51:29 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PBuyy-0001UT-No; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:28 -0700 Received: by ywk9 with SMTP id 9sf3743568ywk.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=dbI+XIFi/oUp9KAdjlqKeyJ7l+LTjmZgr+MOfqz6Hj0=; b=xfk6LAE4wHE+9KIR7N5xCFBUk1WCT1BvOuqGPsqdIvpKG3Au6OIiwXWQ0bw33ipDBl 2W+wR8JskhCk6BBa+HZ/GUBsBs6E2PFZaSQrDvXjjtAznhF1W9Q8uK7LN0Ph8DSbE+27 i5BXnFlD2II3R/E+xOhXCMCnq0lnxmKNx+1qg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=PxfRv6HT9FcBTGEP0K8t/HDYDJZ5EYU3xEwuQCPrlKA8KerKeM2i1LEPpgalhzXpE8 0YOE/cWbCYMYmB6N3jm5qUILEOrp+j9UsH9z3Ein+8zvKV8Vld98bhG+LlJrzGqAXbiD gmZuNbByTBZ14GlaR0rIRFMWszE72omOxZGJM= Received: by 10.151.115.15 with SMTP id s15mr1924467ybm.54.1288381873035; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.249.20 with SMTP id w20ls1797416ybh.6.p; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.197.14 with SMTP id u14mr5369745ybf.27.1288381872543; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.197.14 with SMTP id u14mr5369743ybf.27.1288381872490; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f43.google.com (mail-yw0-f43.google.com [209.85.213.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w9si818087ybe.1.2010.10.29.12.51.11; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.43; Received: by ywi6 with SMTP id 6so2149011ywi.2 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.197.72 with SMTP id ej8mr8813875icb.196.1288381871154; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:51:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101029194001.GI47249@alice.local> References: <20101029194001.GI47249@alice.local> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] questions about peg grammar From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303bf930c3e5530493c6c787 --20cf303bf930c3e5530493c6c787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 oh, interesting. So the !fuhivla, !gismu, and the rest will effectively modify what "bridi-core" is such that a bridi-core (in the context of a lujvo) will not have fuivla, gismu, or cmavo in it. Interesting. So if I have stuff <- !dogs !tabby animal animal <- dogs, cats, mice cats <- barn-cat, tabby then "stuff" will be a class of things that contains "barn-cat and mice". Is this right? On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:40 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:36:09PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > Ok, so I'm trying to get a feel for how the peg grammar handles lujvo > so > > that I can make my parser be as close to the real deal as possible > (i.e. > > not a sloppy hack). I have a question though. I think the relevant > section > > that I want to understand is the following, correct? > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > lujvo <- !gismu !fuhivla !cmavo initial-rafsi* brivla-core > > brivla-core <- fuhivla / gismu / CVV-final-rafsi / > stressed-initial-rafsi > > short-final-rafsi > > stressed-initial-rafsi <- stressed-extended-rafsi / stressed-y-rafsi / > > stressed-y-less-rafsi > > initial-rafsi <- extended-rafsi / y-rafsi / !any-extended-rafsi > > y-less-rafsi > > any-extended-rafsi <- fuhivla / extended-rafsi / > stressed-extended-rafsi > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Now, I may be reading this incorrectly, but wouldn't this mean that an > > initial rafsi followed by a fuhivla would be considered a lujvo? i.e. > > {bracidrspageti}? > > > > This is a bit tricky. > > Look at the early part of the lujvo definition, and you can see > there is a predicate-not operation saying "it can't have a fuhivla" > (That is the !fuhivla). > > So when the brivla-core matches, even through brivla-core is capable > of having a fuhivla, it won't ever have one in this case, because > the earlier predicate-not operation in the lujvo nonterminal won't let > one be there. > > -Alan > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf303bf930c3e5530493c6c787 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oh, interesting. =A0So the !fuhivla, !gismu, and =A0the rest will effective= ly modify what "bridi-core" is such that a bridi-core (in the con= text of a lujvo) will not have fuivla, gismu, or cmavo in it.

Interesting. =A0So if I have
stuff <- !dogs !tabby animal=
animal <- dogs, cats, mice
cats <- barn-cat, tab= by

then "stuff" will be a class of thing= s that contains "barn-cat and mice". =A0Is this right?

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:40 PM, .alyn.= post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:36:09PM -0400,= Luke Bergen wrote:
> =A0 =A0Ok, so I'm trying to get a feel for how the peg grammar han= dles lujvo so
> =A0 =A0that I can make my parser be as close to the real deal as possi= ble (i.e.
> =A0 =A0not a sloppy hack). I have a question though. I think the relev= ant section
> =A0 =A0that I want to understand is the following, correct?
> =A0 =A0;--------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =A0 =A0lujvo <- !gismu !fuhivla !cmavo initial-rafsi* brivla-core > =A0 =A0brivla-core <- fuhivla / gismu / CVV-final-rafsi / stressed-= initial-rafsi
> =A0 =A0short-final-rafsi
> =A0 =A0stressed-initial-rafsi <- stressed-extended-rafsi / stressed= -y-rafsi /
> =A0 =A0stressed-y-less-rafsi
> =A0 =A0initial-rafsi <- extended-rafsi / y-rafsi / !any-extended-ra= fsi
> =A0 =A0y-less-rafsi
> =A0 =A0any-extended-rafsi <- fuhivla / extended-rafsi / stressed-ex= tended-rafsi
> =A0 =A0;--------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =A0 =A0Now, I may be reading this incorrectly, but wouldn't this m= ean that an
> =A0 =A0initial rafsi followed by a fuhivla would be considered a lujvo= ? i.e.
> =A0 =A0{bracidrspageti}?
>

This is a bit tricky.

Look at the early part of the lujvo definition, and you can see
there is a predicate-not operation saying "it can't have a fuhivla= "
(That is the !fuhivla).

So when the brivla-core matches, even through brivla-core is capable
of having a fuhivla, it won't ever have one in this case, because
the earlier predicate-not operation in the lujvo nonterminal won't let<= br> one be there.

-Alan
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

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