From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRC4l63mBBoEnxHXlw@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 29 15:33:44 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PBxW0-0004Hh-Pk; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:43 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf2046421wwb.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=IXjiJKn13IqvMNXS7Q7lqnaHV5R62pHgOkMa+8QeygA=; b=SIqe6ZDeyLy3wG0utPmdR0s+a7JS31lcuP/vxtIHGqYZ13I+vphem1goXrRp00zck2 AwZrtL/nNWmUrB91zTp4LZosXMGtSNs7IFcqKphPZnFuORMhIPUUBKWHwvwC5XtHgRAt ufGyDGVltekour3Nu0ucCztg0enctvEoFNUCo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ktbTfwJQ0ZKj1gmcxtiN8/fpRy81S+4UVS8VUyO79XpR4W6p4HZ/AJsbFqEKLV6V9D c5HxtgZZSBGuyjdYHWM2GPUNgo4MBewDKccexGddXRsTkWUZhJCpwJClDNr/XOl4xW5T c8zPkHlV51vkeo6ZJ6ipLW2XqHmaLcByBiNwg= Received: by 10.216.237.231 with SMTP id y81mr1937005weq.8.1288391608425; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.131.162 with SMTP id x34ls1219943wbs.0.p; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.3 with SMTP id b3mr25547wbv.9.1288391607553; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.3 with SMTP id b3mr25546wbv.9.1288391607488; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f43.google.com (mail-ww0-f43.google.com [74.125.82.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h9si1088815wbe.0.2010.10.29.15.33.26; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.43; Received: by mail-ww0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 39so3577886wwb.12 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.133.140 with SMTP id f12mr151172wbt.139.1288391606070; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <980337.4725.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <760229.32777.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <322766.28658.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <299457.18836.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <980337.4725.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:33:26 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Fw: xagrai and superlatives From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:51 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > > So point 3) would now be: > > 3) Create the lujvo,=A0with the rafsi in reverse order of the order of th= e gismu > in the bridi, leaving the places in the same order as in the bridi, but w= ith > subordinate bridi places at the end. That may or may not work as a general rule. We would need to examine what happens in general to the x3 place of a gismu used as the main component of a lujvo, when the x2 takes a property or some other NU. The problem with any such strict rules are all the silly "by standard" and "under conditions" and such places that we don't really want to be promoted in the lujvo. > Reduce the places by combining those that have the > same meaning. That should be part of step 2. If they didn't get combined at the point when you write the expansion/definition, I don't see why they would be combined later on. > from:=A0=A0=A0 t1 traji loka x1 xamgu x2 x3 kei t3 t4 > > to:=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 t1=3Dx1 xagrai t3 t4=A0x2 x3 The expansion is not "t1 traji lo ka x1 xamgu ...", it's "t1 traji lo ka ce'u xamgu ..." It doesn't make sense to have a property without a "ce'u" place. > Obviously, there will be disagreements as to which places can be deleted. > I believe some purists may argue that t3 should be kept because, although > it is 'bloated', it is not 'nonsense'.=A0 In other words we need to use t= he gismu > as they currently are, not as we would like them to be. If we do that, they will never become what we would like them to be, so it seems like a bad policy. Personally, as you know, I think the x3 of traji is indeed nonsense. One of the worst pieces of nonsense as far as place structures go because it is not in the last place where it can be safely ignored, but inserted before a useful argument place, so it's always getting in the way. > So if I understand you, taking into account your disapproval of t3, and > corrections to point 3), {xagrai} should be > > t1=3Dx1 xagrai t4=A0x2 x3 > t1=3Dx1 is the best among t4 for x2 by standard x3 Right. > which certainly is not the jbovlaste entry: > > t1=3Dx1 is optimal in property t2 of extremity t3 among range t4. Right. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.