From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCeprXmBBoEaP8E_g@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 04:29:55 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCW6b-0004sV-Tp; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:55 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf2718875wyb.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DRUz26Ci7nmLNgNoWAkkXSq1ZJso9cfU5+9vbuvEDnY=; b=sEmpHhHRRUuzdLaT8PKKj9HvVYy0ULNBRRvzRjzRTtieXobjBEA8gz18LhlHVoWb6k QjKbNc1suMnz74O7EvHDWlIQhI3nGXQYU9pBn051QJn3WVn4NX2vHJ6Danm49u7c97l8 qYkpCfTJf/7kZxL2wl7TuI0ZovcYM0DVW9wTQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CkAvybBy6+onJLWOPAGWm0EWqpSiuDX0okQKccKIuEBkfdu52Beu45uBtucczsC+Kv 1WzQnaG9du9KEpAP7yg9gAOH4/PdRHS/eq7Sq3+FeMW/EnzGjL82HAIZJHEQ+iwgVum6 KMD3HUL92fNrMAMlJYPvCiH7C491r949SFB7I= Received: by 10.216.237.9 with SMTP id x9mr2060848weq.11.1288524574415; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.5.203 with SMTP id 53ls1865193wel.3.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.136 with SMTP id p8mr753712weq.12.1288524573062; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.233.136 with SMTP id p8mr753711weq.12.1288524573022; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l2si1440861weq.5.2010.10.31.04.29.31; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.41; Received: by mail-ww0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 15so4205503wwe.0 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.133.140 with SMTP id f12mr1655982wbt.139.1288524571550; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:29:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010291737.49946.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:29:31 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: "to pretend" or "to fake" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > =A0Why not =A0"ko'a jai tcica mi lo nu krici lo du'u ko'a toju'i ce'u"? > What is pretending in that sense other than tricking someone into > believing? I think the difference is that "tricking into" implies success, while "pretending" does not. If he tricks you into believeing something, then you believe it (otherwise he didn't actually trick you into it). If he pretends to do something, you may be able to see through his pretense, and so he did not trick you into believeing it. Maybe if you add a "troci". > And so, from there it seems like "kritcica" would be the > operative lujvo > x1 kritcica x2 x3 > (tu'a x1)=3Dt1 pretends to k1=3Dt2 that k2 is true? Is the x1 of kritcica meant to be a person or an event? The symbols suggest an event, but the English gloss suggests a person. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.