From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDyrrXmBBoEn52-bg@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 04:48:20 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCWOT-0000zz-6o; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:20 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf2731044wwb.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=24vrgP2Xcy5uctXD1NnfUfgzYifgqo4ph2QFDbzF9tM=; b=32SQD+QLBEnddObe+MinMyZwcDk9+3OsgKcR8G1UxXVEUZO8qvDIYDUhR5jnozEzZp FTBRzbjfstJeCjWIO2XvBxREauTguhr4sn5hhpSRvmSu4dTXPkrt6n5727VGUNnThfTo AF1qLlgqFMNOysHcatGZSADXVX4xS2XWn5YUs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CD6j7HTwRXERIY7C1nahmwCewO4goLFzJP0UMe/vJFtI+YeUAmcZGZ4tm7IH8PVtqY ERJR7d5N8h3i1fH4u3RjK1dYdrV/eWJ/cdY63VjCL0jr+vXhRdJtBa6jnQ/XHBpowwYc in7c9pqnqn7/YCCuonBOBxNfai0cinHA8PKlA= Received: by 10.216.237.212 with SMTP id y62mr2029491weq.17.1288525682147; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.5.203 with SMTP id 53ls1869288wel.3.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.165.85 with SMTP id d63mr753349wel.10.1288525680998; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.165.85 with SMTP id d63mr753348wel.10.1288525680969; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f179.google.com (mail-wy0-f179.google.com [74.125.82.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m20si1446760weq.3.2010.10.31.04.47.59; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.179; Received: by mail-wy0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 20so4691702wye.38 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.138.71 with SMTP id z7mr2423750wbt.23.1288525679158; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 04:47:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <451990.11913.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <451990.11913.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:47:59 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 12:32 AM, John E. Clifford w= rote: > [on "dunda"] > > xorxes' point (though not how we would put it) is that, if it does involv= e a change of ownership, then it is likely that any raising involved (I for= get what the structure of dunda' is, so I am not clear =A0where the raising= come in), it may be illegitimate (in the semantic/logical sense -- it is a= lways grammatically allowed). That doesn't sound like my point. My point in bringing up dunda was that the gi'uste says: "x2 may be a specific object, a commodity (mass), an event, or a property; pedantically, for objects/commodities, this is sumti-raising from ownership of the object/commodity", and that fortunately nobody pays any attention to that comment. There is no sumti-raising involved in "mi dunda lo plise do". Especially not pedantically, i.e. when using "raising" in its standard sense. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.