From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDeibfmBBoEA0xuog@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 12:35:16 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCdgJ-0003si-An; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:35:15 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf8313120gyd.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:35:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=P8+AqwSaEveEXbSoTYmTe9r39UR5cn9mzzgryPT2dBY=; b=AnfMO85uTof1TRK2hjsuogsECkmHeBhhV/tOjgJkXdc1iDAep7Mlw8A7ApaOTHFOiW G4B/Y+jvYVAZld33yfPQ/FNWHDIB76Y+k92PjNd6rH9ycLM866lGY2OZx0Uq45CTHoZX uyfbQoiU543ctu5zz4RPEToEzj0lJxBVK+aMM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=IFx4x77GVp3pS1IBO535/5DzWfpKC4NYejJruK/DD652ZI2P0Spfcjh0AJKhiz3PGE z82jTmoilJwIthq4Bi/sihWw1Wd8Iz1ACt7v7lDzluUy1+hsk41gRmfo4sPBJRz+2l79 FNLAmwUYDJ58Xvfumlblmg8U8DEgzB3YBQ2sw= Received: by 10.150.72.10 with SMTP id u10mr2169812yba.39.1288553694905; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.39.10 with SMTP id d10ls3929485ibe.3.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.37.12 with SMTP id v12mr561570ibd.16.1288553693361; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.37.12 with SMTP id v12mr561569ibd.16.1288553693303; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com (mail-iw0-f169.google.com [209.85.214.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cm31si5055219ibb.7.2010.10.31.12.34.52; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.169; Received: by mail-iw0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 38so5712110iwn.0 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.21.17 with SMTP id i17mr10967175icb.263.1288553690180; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101031182023.GA1105@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20101031173116.GX1105@digitalkingdom.org> <20101031182023.GA1105@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:34:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cu-alike for other situations From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30434a5cfa2d5d0493eec849 --20cf30434a5cfa2d5d0493eec849 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, so the general rule when reading a piece of text and encountering a {cu} is "ok, whatever comes next, it's applied to the main selbri (either it is the main selbri, or it's going in the FV slot)". Does that sound right? Can {CU} be followed by BAI? How about tags in general? It seems inconsistent to say that {cu fi} is good but {cu ca} is not. FA and PU behave the same in nearly all other respects. Why should they be different here? For the record, I think it's a great idea. It seems a shame that with as useful as {cu} is, it's only allowed to be used to "pop out" to the main selbri. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > Oh, it might be a {vau} too. It certainly is in the cases below; > it's substituting for {kei vau ku}. > > I wasn't proposing that it be general; that's been the problem in > the past. Trying to make a "pop back a sentence" general cmavo runs > into a lot of problems. I was just thinking about adding {cu FA} to > {cu SELBRI}. > > -Robin > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 02:14:43PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > So in this system "cu" becomes a generic shortcut for > terminators that are applicable except for vau>? > > > > ... sounds cool if I'm understanding it correctly (probably not) > > > > On Oct 31, 2010 1:31 PM, "Robin Lee Powell" > > > wrote: > > > Something that I and some others have talked about on IRC a few > > > times is "Wow, cu is pretty useful when deeply nested; wouldn't it > > > be nice to have something like that that could work in other places > > > besides before the selbri?". > > > > > > This turns out to be surprisingly tricky; many ideas have been shown > > > to be unworkable. > > > > > > I think I might finally have something: mark FA as needing > > > terminator closure before it. Example: > > > > > > mi denpa le nu do xruti fi le nu zutse > > > > > > vs. > > > > > > mi denpa le nu do xruti cu fi le nu zutse > > > > > > "cu fi" means "close terminators, at least one, until a fi is > > > allowed". More than one cu would be allowed there, with the obvious > > > effect. > > > > > > Please note that I am NOT attached to "cu" here; a postfix new cmavo > > > (i.e. "fi xu'u"), or whatever, would be fine. (IIRC postfix is > > > easier in terms of grammatical simplicity, but it's been a while). > > > > > > -Robin > > > > > > -- > > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "lojban" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com< > lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf30434a5cfa2d5d0493eec849 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, so the general rule when reading a piece of text and encountering a {cu= } is "ok, whatever comes next, it's applied to the main selbri (ei= ther it is the main selbri, or it's going in the FV slot)". =A0Doe= s that sound right? =A0Can {CU} be followed by BAI? =A0How about tags in ge= neral? =A0It seems inconsistent to say that {cu fi} is good but {cu ca} is = not. =A0FA and PU behave the same in nearly all other respects. =A0Why shou= ld they be different here?

For the record, I think it's a great idea. =A0It seems a= shame that with as useful as {cu} is, it's only allowed to be used to = "pop out" to the main selbri.

O= n Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org&= gt; wrote:
Oh, it might be a {vau} too. =A0It certainl= y is in the cases below;
it's substituting for {kei vau ku}.

I wasn't proposing that it be general; that's been the problem in the past. =A0Trying to make a "pop back a sentence" general cmavo= runs
into a lot of problems. =A0I was just thinking about adding {cu FA} to
{cu SELBRI}.

-Robin

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 02:14:43PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
> So in this system "cu" becomes a generic shortcut for <in= sert all
> terminators that are applicable except for vau>?
>
> ... sounds cool if I'm understanding it correctly (probably not) >
> On Oct 31, 2010 1:31 PM, "Robin Lee Powell" <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
> wrote:
> > Something that I and some others have talked about on IRC a few > > times is "Wow, cu is pretty useful when deeply nested; would= n't it
> > be nice to have something like that that could work in other plac= es
> > besides before the selbri?".
> >
> > This turns out to be surprisingly tricky; many ideas have been sh= own
> > to be unworkable.
> >
> > I think I might finally have something: mark FA as needing
> > terminator closure before it. Example:
> >
> > mi denpa le nu do xruti fi le nu zutse
> >
> > vs.
> >
> > mi denpa le nu do xruti cu fi le nu zutse
> >
> > "cu fi" means "close terminators, at least one, un= til a fi is
> > allowed". More than one cu would be allowed there, with the = obvious
> > effect.
> >
> > Please note that I am NOT attached to "cu" here; a post= fix new cmavo
> > (i.e. "fi xu'u"), or whatever, would be fine. (IIRC= postfix is
> > easier in terms of grammatical simplicity, but it's been a wh= ile).
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > --
> > http://singins= t.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http= ://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "t= his sentence is false"
> > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/=
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> l= ojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
> > For more options, visit this gr= oup at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
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