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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
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Well, aside from the use mention confusions here (and, I fear, in my remarks as 
well) this seems an odd position to take.  The terms that fill the places of a 
predicate in a sentence have to refer to something, and what are there but 
abstracta and concreta?  Or do you mean only that what is referred to in a given 
case must always be of the same sort, always abstract or always concrete.  I 
have agreed already with xorxes that "abstract" is a bad word here, since the 
event seen, wanted or used is always a concrete individual, though of a 
different structure than the apple that figures in all of them.  And, as xorxes 
has also noted, there is not purely lexical way to mark the difference between 
the two, since any common mark can be circumvented.  And, indeed, there really 
is no difference in the relevant sense, since all the problem that arise with 
wanting a horse,say, arise with wanting to ride a horse  (a point I think xorxes 
made a long time ago, but who impact I only just today came to understand).



________________________________
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 4:14:24 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

Perhaps it is the static typer in me, but I would go so far as to say that it 
does not make sense for a place in a gismu to be able to be an abstraction or a 
concrete object. Objects filling a given predicate place have to fulfill certain 
basic, fundamental requirements to make semantic sense, and I think this is one 
of them. To me, even though I use "want" in this way in English, a {se djica} 
being a concrete object is like adding a function to a number.


mu'o mi'e latros.
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:'times new roman', 'new york', times, se=
rif;font-size:12pt"><div>Well, aside from the use mention confusions here (=
and, I fear, in my remarks as well) this seems an odd position to take. &nb=
sp;The terms that fill the places of a predicate in a sentence have to refe=
r to something, and what are there but abstracta and concreta? &nbsp;Or do =
you mean only that what is referred to in a given case must always be of th=
e same sort, always abstract or always concrete. &nbsp;I have agreed alread=
y with xorxes that "abstract" is a bad word here, since the event seen, wan=
ted or used is always a concrete individual, though of a different structur=
e than the apple that figures in all of them. &nbsp;And, as xorxes has also=
 noted, there is not purely lexical way to mark the difference between the =
two, since any common mark can be circumvented. &nbsp;And, indeed, there
 really is no difference in the relevant sense, since all the problem that =
arise with wanting a horse,say, arise with wanting to ride a horse &nbsp;(a=
 point I think xorxes made a long time ago, but who impact I only just toda=
y came to understand).</div><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new =
york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style=3D"font-family:times new =
roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Taho=
ma"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> I=
an Johnson &lt;blindbravado@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br><b><span style=3D"font-we=
ight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sun, October 31, 2010 4:14:24 PM<br><b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne =
lo bajra<br></font><br>
Perhaps it is the static typer in me, but I would go so far as to say that =
it does not make sense for a place in a gismu to be able to be an abstracti=
on or a concrete object. Objects filling a given predicate place have to fu=
lfill certain basic, fundamental requirements to make semantic sense, and I=
 think this is one of them. To me, even though I use "want" in this way in =
English, a {se djica} being a concrete object is like adding a function to =
a number.<br>
<div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e latros.</div>

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</div></div><div style=3D"position:fixed"></div>


</div><br>

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<p></p>

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