From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCMwrfmBBoEMUJgwg@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 14:35:25 2010
Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCMwrfmBBoEMUJgwg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1PCfYd-0003QZ-Oh; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:25 -0700
Received: by yxe42 with SMTP id 42sf8388689yxe.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received
         :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=is6HPagCD1AtZI5KMKkUYCGJaHz2UOS5i3TaxLb9klU=;
        b=HnbfOzv9pU5tLsp7LLaC5YWi+8YXOvsiYVyYHD4dVKJD471/UuG0bQoKWoE7I/52Ww
         qvV9VrWbBVwDSymC9zxFbm4s4ud+UGguMvfuA3sunxJrXPlsQ27wXjeePOBeJgNQlXgv
         /iw4B76GRm6w0Y5LsJTnDsyUIZzvMGB4UNCCk=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references
         :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=tV/6TIkFcyTSpvscyLHRcP76EvrMQtKwTz6Xjc3jp/GRIn0+BNIIzKFqds4UnTue9F
         ZD5C1grbUaznJX1kojexINRmZSICFx9QJQ8O+MqEuEWyrX+7Go/XDxyIBps6twPMMqma
         kp37oxM0qpuTlBSAecdj4mrt0tYJtD04XZqns=
Received: by 10.150.172.7 with SMTP id u7mr2182411ybe.55.1288560908870;
        Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.150.56.35 with SMTP id e35ls76835yba.5.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010
 14:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.151.109.8 with SMTP id l8mr6537311ybm.54.1288560906361;
        Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.151.109.8 with SMTP id l8mr6537310ybm.54.1288560906306;
        Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id u22si2006052yba.7.2010.10.31.14.35.05;
        Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118;
Received: (qmail 5795 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Oct 2010 21:35:04 -0000
Message-ID: <518311.508.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
X-YMail-OSG: yQr2l6sVM1l11GePlABkM6GDoOeSzAAPHqO5u0Yt3in37Jz
 3_VsEwlQCUbtEfkEJoFO2FaTI.6ZGQPKhB7uY9LsZ2lUqese0K9W.Gb8uouy
 JIvEHG7KfMmE37qjxt8x4CkTUODQayeFJXem5aO6Vu2CYZLgOI0egqRwcWiQ
 bu6P2LPCxTu20Tcr_TQok.hLd3haGsDv0TgnuY7PIyf4PfjZmy2nWqascOBS
 nGrmSYXuIG7kEiTY_I.eSvMgPLYWK3N5eAPLnttHSo9pKPrr17R_WhaG_hks
 wmATTXWL4ISC0GFsItQOPeZikPy8DUVi9594Zu5LOQHQ_fPZ5zInYJOxjorV
 JCcHwPtmAImBNLBDeu.qAwCT2.Q_xhzrnGgWf6qNljtVc7g--
Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:04 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/504.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.284920
References: <995110.82874.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <AANLkTimuJmYRzw95PG6LMsdLfrp=5Q0-kRy+Ks+bgXgB@mail.gmail.com> <ea8e8851-00b3-4cfe-b640-16632f4e3417@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <AANLkTiksQ=xOMEHmMhtb+O=BMGq0XTqApRT9siP=vUrK@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimJch_z8m=wFQftUswHj-b5LP78yasWbG2SBAWZ@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTinpDKiUHRC7uJ8KWtTwywYHs0xWpbNcL799L0nt@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinpDKiUHRC7uJ8KWtTwywYHs0xWpbNcL799L0nt@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates
 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass
 (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-323742773-1288560904=:508"

--0-323742773-1288560904=:508
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You can (and have, apparently) introduce those different terms into Lojban if 
you want, but what do you do differently in the two cases?



________________________________
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 4:16:47 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

Oh, and for the {viska} example that is being discussed but that I didn't 
mention: I think we "see" (viska) things and "observe" (zgana or vi'azga if you 
want to be specific) events. I think these should be separate gismu, and that it 
shouldn't make sense to {viska lo nu broda}.

mu'o mi'e latros.


On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps it is the static typer in me, but I would go so far as to say that it 
does not make sense for a place in a gismu to be able to be an abstraction or a 
concrete object. Objects filling a given predicate place have to fulfill certain 
basic, fundamental requirements to make semantic sense, and I think this is one 
of them. To me, even though I use "want" in this way in English, a {se djica} 
being a concrete object is like adding a function to a number.
>
>
>
>
>mu'o mi'e latros.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.



      

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--0-323742773-1288560904=:508
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:'times new roman', 'new york', times, se=
rif;font-size:12pt"><div>You can (and have, apparently) introduce those dif=
ferent terms into Lojban if you want, but what do you do differently in the=
 two cases?</div><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times=
, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new =
york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><hr siz=
e=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Ian Johnson =
&lt;blindbravado@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:=
</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;=
">Sent:</span></b> Sun, October 31, 2010 4:16:47 PM<br><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra<br=
></font><br>
Oh, and for the {viska} example that is being discussed but that I didn't m=
ention: I think we "see" (viska) things and "observe" (zgana or vi'azga if =
you want to be specific) events. I think these should be separate gismu, an=
d that it shouldn't make sense to {viska lo nu broda}.<div>
<br></div><div>mu'o mi'e latros.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, =
Oct 31, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" ymailto=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:blindbravado@gmail.com">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Perhaps it is the static typer in me, but I=
 would go so far as to say that it does not make sense for a place in a gis=
mu to be able to be an abstraction or a concrete object. Objects filling a =
given predicate place have to fulfill certain basic, fundamental requiremen=
ts to make semantic sense, and I think this is one of them. To me, even tho=
ugh I use "want" in this way in English, a {se djica} being a concrete obje=
ct is like adding a function to a number.<div>
<div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e latros.</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br><span>

For more options, visit this group at <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://g=
roups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.</span><br>


</div></div><div style=3D"position:fixed"></div>


</div><br>

      </body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--0-323742773-1288560904=:508--