From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDBxrfmBBoEyQs3hw@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 14:44:48 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCfhj-0006Jt-P7; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:48 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf2998699wyb.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4yrVV15TZSWqzCn9DOpzwgL+dfdkqtP//XxS1lgQa+A=; b=M8/ytuxlLVPx8bmxRWMEzpVHye1OR3b0W0gY7O5D7/ttP8HI/8QrgbW63Eucedjn8y QrHmRPXgUkEKrH6F1EscH247qJAxzpDg1S0AAp5fNtirH17HgYkf5y5tz8WCxDMER1Lj MH6ah2Y/hwtsWfoKmyj4VXHA+0pYHTiDT5Oto= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=LWQLd3PfQGTdeOnxDmxBIQVWUd9JH2Huu+eG042on0am4m1hLM5plODD7kpEtnwAia TuUsGMvczcs3U5rmHBcpBeOtvbRCzaDLJo9iJHL1Qj9lyoc1wr60dC2VFPSO0F3xsAtB foeg+EA/UwOqJ360kMlUQvPfYJAio6NaS63Kk= Received: by 10.216.237.35 with SMTP id x35mr2105353weq.5.1288561473880; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.5.203 with SMTP id 53ls2030050wel.3.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.140.23 with SMTP id d23mr107955wej.1.1288561473116; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.140.23 with SMTP id d23mr107954wej.1.1288561473098; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f173.google.com (mail-wy0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l2si1618012weq.13.2010.10.31.14.44.32; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.173; Received: by mail-wy0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 26so5701107wyj.18 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.127.66 with SMTP id f2mr1399760wbs.81.1288561471635; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:44:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <995110.82874.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:44:31 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > Perhaps it is the static typer in me, but I would go so far as to say that > it does not make sense for a place in a gismu to be able to be an > abstraction or a concrete object. I generally agree with you there (but see the caveat below). The point where we disagree though is probably that you consider events to be "abstractions", and I don't. Events are as concrete as concrete can be. They dwell in space-time just like apples and unicorns do. They are not abstract like numbers or sets or properties or propositions. The main difference between events and objects is that events are relatively well defined in time but fuzzy in space, whereas objects are relatively well defined in space but fuzzy in time. The caveat is that there are some predicates that admit of different types in different contexts. For example: lo vi bolci cu zmadu lo va bolci lo ka barda li so cu zmadu li ci lo ka barda So the x1 and x2 of "zmadu" can be abstractions, like numbers, or objects, like balls, but it wouldn't make sense to compare the magnitude of one type with the magnitude of the other type. The x1 of ckaji too can be pretty much of any type, but only if the corresponding property in x2 accepts the corresponding type. The x3 of djuno can be pretty much of any type, it can be anything about which something can be known. And so on. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.