From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCq67fmBBoE7kNZeA@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 16:03:23 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCgvm-0001eG-9q; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:23 -0700 Received: by ywj3 with SMTP id 3sf2595189ywj.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SK5gBWr4voQoXMXnl69llGl8Mbh6hlaifDeIG7ooiOs=; b=GOIp0fh1/B6uyN1jMEaNgbFwt9zYP2B02u9iLIgm0QDQ/e8BRBRWrJn3obkRt0rmgV 7qWJAT/guWUX6SbIns7k6JaDT6bxM/el4qOTyoYNdwADc6SGyHBzrBzrRKlUyc3Sr357 Wr7QNysGoGnY1QLDzHfC2EuvgI8n957+OUexo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=kK2skHlsFZxNqIS0LEPFL9viDYGOnzL/lo7dZhw7i09jtAqIe1AMwoubURDGMsrjmh WJ3w4ku+/4WmDJ3xx6aBP+yXTAQf4AqM2gdLQNccdv8CDM4vqkHwfHTOEZQDmCOfuIW+ FGDLYfl3VDJP92jWY+LQScb6a3nKf8C2JH9LA= Received: by 10.90.5.26 with SMTP id 26mr544843age.48.1288566186912; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.112.41 with SMTP id u41ls3975796ibp.1.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.16.141 with SMTP id o13mr2252142iba.1.1288566186042; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.16.141 with SMTP id o13mr2252141iba.1.1288566185987; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com (mail-iw0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cm31si5168400ibb.7.2010.10.31.16.03.04; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.177; Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so6334603iwn.22 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.11 with SMTP id r11mr2302452ibd.58.1288566182866; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.149.14 with HTTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:03:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20101031173116.GX1105@digitalkingdom.org> <20101031195943.GR8367@nvg.org> <20101031200157.GD1105@digitalkingdom.org> <20101031211948.GF1105@digitalkingdom.org> <20101031213123.GG1105@digitalkingdom.org> <839237.99689.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:03:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cu-alike for other situations From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325550e5a996e4a0493f1b1d4 --000325550e5a996e4a0493f1b1d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think I've been misunderstanding {cu} for a long time now so I'd like to get that straightened out before I try to weigh in any further on this topic. So, currently {cu} will break you out to the next appropriate bridi (i.e. the next bridi that is waiting for a selbri) and not *necessarily* out to the "main" bridi? If this is true, then I understand why people are asking why {vau} would not work. On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 3:40 PM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > >> All this is a little outside my range, but Logjan has a history of right >> hand >> end problems, both in specifying them and in using those specs correctly= . >> Any >> device that does this efficiently and surely would be universally welcom= ed >> (after the carping about details and destroying the purity of the langua= ge >> are >> over, of course). >> > > It seems to me that this kind of construct would make most if not elidabl= e > terminators basically unneccesary. I could be wrong on that, and I'm not > stating a desire for that to happen. > > In any case, if there are cases where "vau FA" isn't enough, I think it > would make most sense to alter the grammar of {vau} so that it /is/ enoug= h, > rather than creating another word. I don't personally think using {cu} in > that respect is a good idea, but I do like the idea of having a word that > does as Robin proposes. > > >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Robin Lee Powell >> To: lojban@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 4:31:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [lojban] cu-alike for other situations >> >> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 06:27:58PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >> > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Robin Lee Powell >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > I found the example as-is perfectly useful; to me it is much >> > > easier to think "I want to do the x3 of the next outer bridi >> > > now" and just *say that* then have to figure out what I need to >> > > close to achieve that result. The way I proposed fits the way I >> > > think about the language a lot better. >> > >> > How does the proposed "cu fi" differ from the current "vau fi" >> > then? >> > >> > "vau" tells you to terminate the current bridi and move on. >> >> I seem to recall cases where vau wasn't sufficient to do what I >> want, but nothing's coming to mind at the moment. The next time >> that happens I'll try to take note. >> >> -Robin >> >> -- >> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot >> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" >> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --000325550e5a996e4a0493f1b1d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think I've been misunderstanding {cu} for a long time now so I&#= 39;d like to get that=A0straightened=A0out before I try to weigh in any fur= ther on this topic.

So, currently {cu} will break = you out to the next appropriate bridi (i.e. the next bridi that is waiting = for a selbri) and not necessarily=A0out to the "main" brid= i? =A0If this is true, then I understand why people are asking why {vau} wo= uld not work. =A0

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmai= l.com> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 3:40 P= M, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
All this is a little outside my range= , but Logjan has a history of right hand
end problems, both in specifyin= g them and in using those specs correctly. =A0Any
device that does this efficiently and surely would be universally welcomed<= br>(after the carping about details and destroying the purity of the langua= ge are
over, of course).
=A0
It seems to me that this kind of construct would make most if no= t elidable terminators basically unneccesary. I could be wrong on that, and= I'm not stating a desire for that to happen.
=A0
In any case, if there are cases where "vau FA" isn't eno= ugh, I think it would make most sense to alter the grammar of {vau} so that= it /is/ enough, rather than creating another word. I don't personally = think using {cu} in that respect is a good idea, but I do like the idea of = having a word that does as Robin proposes.
=A0
----- Original Message ----
From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdo= m.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 4:31:23 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cu-alike fo= r other situations

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 06:27:58PM -0300, Jorge L= lamb=EDas wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Robin Lee Powell<= br> > <r= lpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >
> > I found= the example as-is perfectly useful; to me it is much
> > easier t= o think "I want to do the x3 of the next outer bridi
> > now" and just *say that* then have to figure out what I need= to
> > close to achieve that result. =A0The way I proposed fits t= he way I
> > think about the language a lot better.
>
> How does the proposed "cu fi" differ from the current "= vau fi"
> then?
>
> "vau" tells you to terminate the curre= nt bridi and move on.

I seem to recall cases where vau wasn't su= fficient to do what I
want, but nothing's coming to mind at the mome= nt. =A0The next time
that happens I'll try to take note.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/ : =A0O= ur last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language i= n which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digita= lkingdom.org/rlp/

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=

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e= 'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
<= div class=3D"h5">

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