From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDx0LjmBBoEddGgyw@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 31 19:40:01 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PCkJP-0007gk-Dd; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:40:01 -0700 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf186276pvh.16 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=ATZAhBTG/SyrJLpkStmnXMW0urV5FNX4JmHXq5km250=; b=tAk3Pum9HjJXr9qHpJIHM0HFIsZj9/dQwY6EmQ/8WdMfDzrzNOiFt/dpIYxqPVT5SA WLW6m+2Sqi+gZKOWSm+ADDJNV2hRY+q6+1xmaG1ktxhMvcHJnRnMv4CyFs7oV4R4HtZE k38PE7QVzewkc8M1Jzbg8JaSSqEmxcU7piCKQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=NbBKLXV2GHhBxmL8tf8cHEK+DvEMll+jjKhj2ubPRQmym+64f0lo8GxYq59r6Za9ji n0DW+mlhCupRpaPveD4ndnKbACKKkZ2CCj/Iaqt50+sKcuimmfXeOOitQAEepPlVHXJx ONc6SSK983NF+0upz3s7Pa+JBr8SAxeeP3+no= Received: by 10.143.20.28 with SMTP id x28mr168391wfi.26.1288579185708; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls5198219wfb.0.p; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.212.11 with SMTP id k11mr3088831wfg.12.1288579185126; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.212.11 with SMTP id k11mr3088830wfg.12.1288579185098; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si8592795wfc.6.2010.10.31.19.39.44; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uESSSoDEku2quKX/oFXS2Smn5+55LTFcWFr5T5T8nFs= c=1 sm=0 a=CHYRdDHzefoA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=I1R_OG3WoPHyBpCN-k4A:9 a=XicO-X0hdQhRQwp3e41oGHzeu3kA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:40030] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id F8/A2-07087-0782ECC4; Mon, 01 Nov 2010 02:39:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8631509 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:39:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: "to pretend" or "to fake" Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:39:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010312239.42252.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 31 October 2010 21:43:41 Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Michael Turniansky > > wrote: > >=A0=A0But we can refer to any (non prosumti) > > sumti we want, no matter how far down it is, since ri/ra/ru and > > abu/by/cy "see" all levels at once. So since we can do that, I'm just > > looking for a abstraction undoer... > > So you need to convert a sumti into a selbri. The direct way of doing > that is with "ME sumti [MOI] /MEhU/", but neither ME by itself nor > with help of any of the MOIs seems to do what you want, because they > all have their own fixed placed structure, and you want something with > variable place structure depending on the sumti. When "me" is used to make a type-1 or type-2 fu'ivla, it ought to be just a= =20 sumti-to-selbri converter, with arbitrary place structure. (I can't tell fr= om=20 the Book, since the example "me la spagetis" has only one place.) So if I= =20 make a type-1 out of a taxonomic name, I should be able to say "ti me la'o= =20 ly. Simmondsia .ly. la jungo" (blame Link for that, he misread Nuttall's=20 writing). But that still wouldn't undo abstraction. How about adding anothe= r=20 cmavo to ME? Pierre --=20 I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.