From araizen@newmail.net Sat Sep 01 17:44:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 2 Sep 2001 00:44:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 46803 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2001 00:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2001 00:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out.newmail.net) (212.150.54.158) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Sep 2001 00:44:12 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.0.182.116]) by out.newmail.net ; Sun, 02 Sep 2001 03:45:13 +0200 Message-ID: <01a901c13350$edd760c0$74b6003e@oemcomputer> To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] properties vs. relationships Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 03:37:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 From: "Adam Raizen" la .xorxes. cusku di'e > I suppose it could be defined like that, but then x3 of cnino, > instead of being more or less any one-ce'u property, would be > restricted to be a very special subset of 2-ce'u relationships, > those where the second argument is an evaluator or something > like that. What do we gain by complicating so much this place? I can go with that, since we can say that it's a part of the definition of 'cnino' that x2 is aware of or evaluates x1 having the property x2; but, > >Likewise with "ko'a pamoi lei nanmu le ka ce'u clani". Shouldn't it be > > > > ko'a pamoi lei nanmu le ka ce'u clamau ce'u > > Again it is possible, but it gives to moi a far more complicated > meaning. This one is better motivated, I think. "le ka ce'u clamau ce'u" is the exact relationship which holds between every two adjacent members of the sequence, and thus defines it. When I see "...le ka ce'u clani", I wonder why ascending order should be the default. > >Otherwise, how would you get ascending order vs. descending order? > > {pamoi fi le ka clani} vs. {pamoi fi la ka tordu}. This works for 'clani' because it's easy to reverse the property. But what about something like "ko'a pamoi lei dacti le ka ce'u kelvo" vs. "ko'a pamoi lei dacti le ka le se kelvo be ce'u cu zmadu/mleca le se kelvo be ce'u" mu'o mi'e .adam.