From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCKrdzmBBoEOHzWXQ@googlegroups.com Sun Nov 07 13:14:04 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PFCYp-00016Y-21; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:14:03 -0800 Received: by gxk28 with SMTP id 28sf5747797gxk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ns2bQGpIkjXJjiT7RRGN5438bqxk7Ns3YIW9xmujbBM=; b=p8blyRsaNEQO5x1Jakl60nE1AG8VELwqVPybHKEsOQKPXCoF+K2t/d/7jf4m4Zhode TyDzYVJY3aziP9dl43yLNY9n36j3AvI7bufBsV3B+StZOy6mc33ddbNEi7W7SILPHcGA 52p3OI8Z3im+xYsOy0YsAZeQhVZZ9p+g2WBiQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=0JA4uBe2m9ycwqVkuQYNhJTi4I3VqVlc/EB4aC6WucucTJjnDLyDCafp8zblVxf0wz vbDgx3yrsqb5+AqU3UEa1LCLGuf6NiBzJWD0zRcvNY00vambIEL9h9nnN/zMlqX+2fyF qWkVBCtsTiwgN5mI8Le4ZxK5JkrFITJHy2Q80= Received: by 10.150.172.6 with SMTP id u6mr470098ybe.35.1289164426929; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:46 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.180.73 with SMTP id bt9ls2897310ibb.0.p; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.198 with SMTP id h6mr953787ibe.0.1289164425594; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.198 with SMTP id h6mr953786ibe.0.1289164425551; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cm31si2663418ibb.7.2010.11.07.13.13.44; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by mail-iw0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 38so5143750iwn.2 for ; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.217.67 with SMTP id hl3mr239053icb.244.1289164423829; Sun, 07 Nov 2010 13:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.37.198 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:13:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9e09941a-d4e0-4695-b283-1bd1333b972f@35g2000prt.googlegroups.com> References: <8CD4CBEEE65C88A-1370-16D83@webmail-d003.sysops.aol.com> <6c90cb58-397f-48c7-a6d9-dc0d4d6f3a62@i4g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <201011072135.50151.jezuch@interia.pl> <9e09941a-d4e0-4695-b283-1bd1333b972f@35g2000prt.googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!). From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054996b8a1a3604947cfb74 --20cf3054996b8a1a3604947cfb74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Lindar wrote: > > First of all I thought it would be constructive to post this link: > http://www.ccelian.com/ElianScriptFull.html > > It explains *a lot* :) Especially how this would look like in > handwriting. > > Actually, that doesn't explain a damn thing, as larlermorna is really > only loosely based on Elian Script. If you look at the pictures that > I've linked, you'll see that I've included several writing and style > examples. Elian's English-mode functions veeeeeeery much not like the > Lojban mode. > > > I really like this idea. One question though: where's {y}? :) > > Okay, since we've got so much confusion here, I will be very explicit. > > http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/1289102653812s.jpg > This picture outlines the basic script. It shows the grid and how the > system was developed for a Lojban mode. Each corner of the hash > corresponds to a letter. The example text reads {.i .o'i mu xagji > sofybakni cu zvati le purdi}. This shows an example of every character > (minus the 'hard-diphthongs'), so please refer to this as your core > example. For those of you that just can't seem to get it, {.y'y} would > be written: > > X X > . ^ > > I hope that clears up an confusion on the 'non-letters'. > > http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/1289103671236s.jpg > This picture outlines several writing styles. The first two were > hastily written with a round tip in two different fashions to > illustrate how each character may be 'casually' written. Note that > {coi} is the first word, and is a great example of how characters may > be variably written. It can be written as a u or a |_|, as long as > it's obvious that all 'sides' are equal(-ish) in length and that the > top is open. We can also see in the first two lines that {rodo} is > written two different ways. In the first, the D is written hanging > down, whereas in the second it's written ===| with the horizontal bars > extended instead. This is to illustrate that it doesn't matter which > dimension is lengthened as long as it's made obvious that it is not > equal in all dimensions. This is driven home in the third and fourth > examples because all of the sides -are- equal, but in both there is a > tail dropping downward. All four examples say {coi rodo mi'e > la .lindar.} except the third which says {.lin.} because I was sloppy. > Refer to this for style guides. > > http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/1289106614940s.jpg > This illustrates how the 'soft' diphthongs are made. I wanted to, for > the sake of consistency, fill in the entire grid for the vowels as > well. So AU AI EI OI have a single character. However, to come up with > single characters for every permutation of initial I and initial U > would be very difficult, especially since we've nearly exhausted every > permutation of this grid system. To make this easier, diphthongs that > have an initial I are overlined and initial U are underlined. The > first example reads {.ui}. It is the character {.i } with the diacrit > underlined. The second is the character {.u } which has been > overlined, giving us {.iu} as a result. The third is {.ua}, which is > the {.a } character underlined. The final example is an overlined > {.o }, which gives us {.io}. > > http://jbotcan.org/ideas/src/1289156112875.png > This is a nifty picture of a giant stone monster. > > http://jbotcan.org/ideas/src/1289156177933.png > This is a picture of the same using larlermorna in a 'stone etched' > style of writing as another example of its use and stylisation. The > bubble reads {.i ti mo}. > > I hope I have cleared up any confusion on usage and characters. > I think remo should start using this script in his comic translations - I think it's an excellent method for space-restricted writing. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf3054996b8a1a3604947cfb74 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo= .com> wrote:
> First of all I thought it would be constructive to p= ost this link:http://www.ccelian.com/ElianScriptFull.html
> It exp= lains *a lot* :) Especially how this would look like in handwriting.

Actually, that doesn't explain a damn thing, as larlermorna i= s really
only loosely based on Elian Script. If you look at the pictures= that
I've linked, you'll see that I've included several wri= ting and style
examples. Elian's English-mode functions veeeeeeery much not like theLojban mode.

> I really like this idea. One question though: wh= ere's {y}? :)

Okay, since we've got so much confusion = here, I will be very explicit.

http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/1= 289102653812s.jpg
This picture outlines the basic script. It shows the grid and how the
sy= stem was developed for a Lojban mode. Each corner of the hash
correspond= s to a letter. The example text reads {.i .o'i mu xagji
sofybakni cu= zvati le purdi}. This shows an example of every character
(minus the 'hard-diphthongs'), so please refer to this as your core=
example. For those of you that just can't seem to get it, {.y'y= } would
be written:

X X
. ^

I hope that clears up an co= nfusion on the 'non-letters'.

http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/1289103671236s.jpg
This pict= ure outlines several writing styles. The first two were
hastily written = with a round tip in two different fashions to
illustrate how each character may be 'casually' written. Note that<= br>{coi} is the first word, and is a great example of how characters maybe variably written. It can be written as a u or a |_|, as long as
it's obvious that all 'sides' are equal(-ish) in length and tha= t the
top is open. We can also see in the first two lines that {rodo} is=
written two different ways. In the first, the D is written hanging
down, whereas in the second it's written =3D=3D=3D| with the horizontal= bars
extended instead. This is to illustrate that it doesn't matter= which
dimension is lengthened as long as it's made obvious that it = is not
equal in all dimensions. This is driven home in the third and fourth
exa= mples because all of the sides -are- equal, but in both there is a
tail = dropping downward. All four examples say {coi rodo mi'e
la .lindar.}= except the third which says {.lin.} because I was sloppy.
Refer to this for style guides.

http://jbotcan.org/ideas/thumb/= 1289106614940s.jpg
This illustrates how the 'soft' diphthong= s are made. I wanted to, for
the sake of consistency, fill in the entire grid for the vowels as
well.= So AU AI EI OI have a single character. However, to come up with
single= characters for every permutation of initial I and initial U
would be ve= ry difficult, especially since we've nearly exhausted every
permutation of this grid system. To make this easier, diphthongs that
ha= ve an initial I are overlined and initial U are underlined. The
first ex= ample reads {.ui}. It is the character {.i } with the diacrit
underlined= . The second is the character {.u } which has been
overlined, giving us {.iu} as a result. The third is {.ua}, which is
the= {.a } character underlined. The final example is an overlined
{.o }, wh= ich gives us {.io}.

http://jbotcan.org/ideas/src/1289156112875.png=
This is a nifty picture of a giant stone monster.

http://jbotcan.o= rg/ideas/src/1289156177933.png
This is a picture of the same using l= arlermorna in a 'stone etched'
style of writing as another example of its use and stylisation. The
bubb= le reads {.i ti mo}.

I hope I have cleared up any confusion on usage= and characters.
I think remo should start using this script in his comic translations = - I think it's an excellent method for space-restricted writing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmi= ma le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Co= me to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--20cf3054996b8a1a3604947cfb74--