From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCNwu_mBBoEsuBTuw@googlegroups.com Thu Nov 11 04:27:09 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PGWF7-00016h-Ll; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:27:09 -0800 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf1228114wyb.16 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=0gxEHUlRF9TV+THht1SW5KpA/nCi2emWkwOHXGCd18Q=; b=MGBjNW+wC0KsFqQu8fCYcqJ0o8rr7N9VQYD1b+mwjvdN9RonOwbq5EVy44IxDqWxUZ yUdYkWleJbNK/nMbkORXbFspU5ti7ZLnPGGvzphimo2IhjxFgsK73X0UZp0PGy6ztP6R KC0qCCg0u8vkhKyjZr0r+aJo8jVsI2W+W4KG8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=LQqY+lj0NepY899VcjHo9LxtmSpOX9tbE5NcjQ1IJ7FBCHgZH9A28NHToedM9kKA9u vYRRX2I+u1+RCZTO77waKxOzSyIj0PCzjEcKzE2XqkXl5VUVv1WfV/dpgBWLr6VEeBJP y6sS15fLoUX+3gGkfhdqtzm80F72jzPos+cWM= Received: by 10.216.159.205 with SMTP id s55mr75121wek.12.1289478413563; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.110.83 with SMTP id m19ls639753wbp.0.p; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.135.75 with SMTP id m11mr32479wbt.7.1289478412187; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.135.75 with SMTP id m11mr32478wbt.7.1289478411103; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com (mail-ww0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w33si724165wbd.2.2010.11.11.04.26.50; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.46; Received: by wwj40 with SMTP id 40so941wwj.15 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.127.66 with SMTP id f2mr763472wbs.81.1289478409328; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2010 04:26:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4e2ac221-68ca-4ed6-94d9-9275bbc59114@r4g2000prj.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:26:49 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!). From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Lindar wrote: >> From the point of view of the grammar, there is no difference at all >> between them. The comma never makes a phonemic difference. If you use >> it, it's just for decorative purposes. It's unfortunate that it was >> ever even added to the Lojban alphabet. > > Isn't this completely against what the CLL says? CLL says: "Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma." (Ch. 3 Sect. 3) > I thought triphthongs were illegal, and essentially that says they - > are- legal. No, two vowels written together do not necessarily form a diphthong (i.e. one syllable), and three vowels written together do not necessarily form a thriphthong (i.e. one syllable). "aio" is two syllables no matter how you split them, just like "aro" is two syllables. You can write the decorative comma as "ar,o" or as "a,ro", but it doesn't make any differrence to the morphology. As for thriphthongs being "illegal", CLL contains the name ".i,iai,ii,iai,ion." as an example, using the triphthong "iai" twice, but it may very well say somewhere else that triphthongs are illegal. The morphology section in CLL is not 100% consistent. > While it claims to not make a difference, I do hear/say one > between .A,ionys. and .AI,onys. That you can make and hear a difference doesn't mean the difference is relevant. As a Spanish speaker I can pronounce "r" as an alveolar tap or a trill and hear the difference, but it won't make any difference to Lojban. Whichever one I use or hear, it's the same word in Lojban. "Being the same word" is relevant in very few contexts anyway. You can use "a,ionys" as the opening delimiter in a ZOI quote, and "ai,onys" as the closing delimiter, and it will work, because it's the same word, just as if I use "ra" with a tap as the opening delimiter and "ra" with a trill as the closing delimiter. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.