From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChCQlfbmBBoEWkh17A@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 12 10:42:39 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PGya4-0004Xd-B4; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:39 -0800 Received: by gwj20 with SMTP id 20sf3048905gwj.16 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Plc3rT2VcIOYzRklLGpYA2thhNqsePG2VtuG1LODIlQ=; b=Rd2y8/qVSo4EEoyZOdRnkl4nfMu2rY9uUks1h0JbDkTE8sosh1X5r/RD+YnQrvbgBF PbJwegi7VgcHQBDBe7MjRAmtHLOf1GYMC3DiylzSH6IYcSnKc4+qa+3MzkES3TMvbWxu hIPIQtNauR69bhvWBYPlYHqs4kPBDJF0VQwPo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dJgKNWvj6pDYXTuotBKx/DA+FdUPeBp4V04ttAmmQazg30GRVrNbTlf8xkWmGs4Gm0 /VocoqzC2vmGME8bZHHPaoIYfFPPFUbvcqgAPFrg9TLQrMQU2pSmQK7RplEelluV+lRQ XEl2o0meCfRb22LQ/J6cT2fFwr1T0LHDOdIbQ= Received: by 10.100.152.3 with SMTP id z3mr99900and.11.1289587344371; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.117.15 with SMTP id p15ls255038anc.6.p; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.191.5 with SMTP id o5mr482583anf.44.1289587343600; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.191.5 with SMTP id o5mr482582anf.44.1289587343586; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f179.google.com (mail-yx0-f179.google.com [209.85.213.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x34si76317ana.4.2010.11.12.10.42.22; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:22 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.179; Received: by yxn22 with SMTP id 22so59386yxn.10 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.194.141 with SMTP id dy13mr2263480icb.496.1289587339809; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.137 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4e2ac221-68ca-4ed6-94d9-9275bbc59114@r4g2000prj.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:42:19 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!). From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/11/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Craig Daniel wr= ote: >> >> Syntactically, they're unambiguously the same word. > > That's what I'm saying, yes. > >> Semantically... well, they're probably the same in most cases, but as >> a simple matter of pragmatics I'm pretty sure that if you know a >> Martin and a Mart=EDn who both speak Lojban and are in the room, and you >> say "doi .martin. mi do prami" nobody's going to get confused about >> which one you're declaring your feelings for. > > At least nobody who is also aware of their non-Lojban name. But that > could also be true even if they both shared the same identical > non-Lojban name. In most cases people will figure out which ".martin." > you mean just from their knowledge of the situation, who you are > looking at when speaking, or many other clues. > True. But I think it's perfectly plausible, if not even remotely common, for the morphologically-irrelevant difference in pronunciation of the same cmevla to be relevant in a specific instance. (Plus, pronouncing somebody's name with the stress they like on it is friendly.) But yeah, there's no doubt about the fact that, from a morphological and syntactical standpoint, .martin. and .marTIN. are the same name. Ditto .ai,on,ys., .a,iO,nys., and any other variation in placement of the commas and the stress. As far as the grammar is concerned, it is as irrelevant as the fact that I say the name with a rounded .y. This isn't a matter for disagreement; it's a feature of the official parser. - mi'e .kreig.daniyl. (which by the way is why I often round my .y.'s - otherwise I catch myself saying .dani,l., which is not my name.) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.