From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCbnfbmBBoEjpZwxA@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 12 10:59:55 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PGyqk-0005hj-C2; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:55 -0800 Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1sf5449995qyk.16 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+sx8aq1H2eqnNpHJm9ibI20e//m0dXoulTvanrJXSCQ=; b=aKufNjHiO3KCzOig3votW/XSRpgPeGWm3V6OjSHiXbmFTaJ3mOdmlYlre+aHYiYtNS wtfZRG4Tj9IqoApaTE/L1zIaxJjA+ghOf25lyYumEXT5AydlDEFFoT+ev2zQOhyPZpN+ dNgQjgVtMzkAADVUJ3i74olEq86pSAIpbR1vc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GEnZWsPYFK4S++1wfZRR7orHQRdes08o1msXC4W5nxzPTu2U5psS7OHJ+zmtUHSBuz Mc4LRvJ7GqS/3fCsxAHlOstk9nrJaqNJ0CC6VgyrQpPjEi5OSUiKs9FAIe+RFi7VlAWw VlTmekf6Wa6dOY86IJI9ifvqwRxoalxXz0oT4= Received: by 10.229.2.71 with SMTP id 7mr350002qci.37.1289588379011; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:39 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.166.70 with SMTP id l6ls461234qay.2.p; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.6.148 with SMTP id 20mr293472qaz.25.1289588378351; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.6.148 with SMTP id 20mr293471qaz.25.1289588378268; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f46.google.com (mail-vw0-f46.google.com [209.85.212.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si1894670qci.4.2010.11.12.10.59.37; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.46; Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so1133870vws.5 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.104.204 with SMTP id q12mr2195826qco.228.1289588376957; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.219.14 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:59:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:59:36 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] x1 to the left From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Because there are many, many times when you simply want to comment about the existense of soemthing, or the state of things, and the observative is a useful construct. So I can say "viska mi'o" without having to say "da viska mi'o" Or "rokci" without having to say "lo rokci cu farlu mi'o" Is it arbitrary? Sure, but arbitrary doesn't equal bizzare. Back in the olden days of Loglan, something without an argument to the left was considered to be a command, just like English, (i.e., in modern lojban "broda" would have equalled "ko broda"). It's just a design choice. --gejyspa On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > It just fully occurred to me again how absurd this is. =A0What was the > reasoning behind deciding that the x1 goes to the left of the selbri and = if > you want to say "mi prami do" with the selbri first you must=A0say "prami= fa > mi do"? > It seems silly and arbitrary that if you just see "prami mi" you assume t= hat > the "mi" takes the x2. =A0It seems like the general rule should be "if yo= u see > a selbri, it's the selbri, if you see a sumti, make it the first sumti, i= f > you already have a first sumti, make it the second sumti, etc..." until t= he > whole bridi is understood but this general understanding of a bridi needs= a > special rule to handle "am I to the right or left of the selbri". =A0Why = this > bizarre rule? > mu'o mi'e cribe > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.