From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhCeofbmBBoEoM4lGg@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 12 11:08:28 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PGyz3-0006MZ-Pk; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:28 -0800 Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1sf5456760qyk.16 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JhGkFCLDWXF16TUXIH1rlKCGDwDfUM1TL8TQnY9C7ak=; b=hCIXxJAtmqa76tHuMLj+o6WIbPM7tK5aPlQQQ+i1wTKb2FqiNqiWB3AML3vHMagQk3 S1x/NHkaD7kA1sfhM6gdVSIVsrqCyABvWwsvA2RUj4tcE4EfOw5eeqFDBThHZaEzRtdO QKlstJZkKMfNeAMP6LT6njEShdUy6vT9JerP0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XcJ56fTDQPQWwebmQdit/V+WP2eU/PFQ4i0y8US8RrSNqlLw1rUofPl8rkMs565qzx edES5K+eykPnIwN2spTNQ5s5hpAU3aHNXVJQW/qvQYRcQ0ZfmNKShp7WTYTAZpPJvxq/ kcOQIlb0qEZIL0lZgVLp/1LErFUriRs7UdsKw= Received: by 10.229.34.72 with SMTP id k8mr358044qcd.2.1289588894444; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.69.77 with SMTP id y13ls1095893qci.3.p; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.220.198 with SMTP id hz6mr294952qcb.13.1289588893647; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.220.198 with SMTP id hz6mr294951qcb.13.1289588893612; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y15si1893013qce.11.2010.11.12.11.08.12; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.54; Received: by mail-vw0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 20so1174606vws.41 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.236.193 with SMTP id kl1mr2269578qcb.37.1289588892347; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.219.14 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:08:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4e2ac221-68ca-4ed6-94d9-9275bbc59114@r4g2000prj.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:08:12 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!). From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/11/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Craig Daniel wr= ote: >> >> =A0(Plus, >> pronouncing somebody's name with the stress they like on it is >> friendly.) > > Yes, that's similar to pronouncing a Chinese name with the tone they > like, even though tone is irrelevant in Lojban. For personal names, it > is polite to at least try to use whatever the name bearer likes, when > you are aware of it and you are able to manage it. > > But for names of places, products, and so on, insisting that everyone > should use one or another of the permissible forms is not really > practical. > >> But yeah, there's no doubt about the fact that, from a morphological >> and syntactical standpoint, .martin. and .marTIN. are the same name. >> Ditto .ai,on,ys., .a,iO,nys., and any other variation in placement of >> the commas and the stress. As far as the grammar is concerned, it is >> as irrelevant as the fact that I say the name with a rounded .y. This >> isn't a matter for disagreement; it's a feature of the official >> parser. > > At least a feature of the official-to-be parser. I don't know what the > currently official parser does, since it doesn't really have a fully > functional morphology. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes I know we can either a) go around with the same conversation again or b) say "look it up the last time we did" but I'm forced once again to point out that unlike tone or allophones, stress is recognized by lojban as a language feature that makes a meaningful difference in utterances, so to say that it doesn't make a difference in cmevla in particular, is an arbitrary ruling (made by xorxes?) that I see no support for. And to refer to your friend martin (=3DMARtin) as "marTIN" is just plain wrong. la'e zo marTIN na du la'e zo MARtin .i seni'ibo zo marTIN na du zo MARtin (I think I'll start referring to xorxes as "djordj" and see how that goes over). --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.