From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhD_ovbmBBoE7n9wxA@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 12 11:12:14 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PGz2h-0006X7-IE; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:12:14 -0800 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14sf1756092vws.16 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:12:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pLcxfcVrAUg6qAX93Y2tJEYySVKZKQjdMOwvV3bTTMg=; b=lemo414jfu8Vs0DQAM1AhLqYh0wTgovSh4zeUyJ3k0DEkqQjHlYWvt6+x3YDf0+zfo uLO6yqTvsC3/ISkVL4hJEeYKnVjL7ND51ansUWM6ym4Gf+5QMXXXdUQsmXnYNZhBzCCc g0mx7nsmDqbfzew0UZ0stYBERpHOdv9Z0sxT4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=uUSO6cbfxiLnY6rmQ+g1S4NdDKNBg9BVnAEZqpH486X/4DrPrRfPp6CcmAspwlFuR0 upVB3d3e3Xfz3ejF227Y71+7KqBIoHYHHBaQFR9HlitoWoDxmNdrKcILd+OdEHmKUchx fZFfs5pC6ePdAsxRh/wzENPa8ZFvQoDhtG5sE= Received: by 10.220.195.194 with SMTP id ed2mr169995vcb.1.1289589119490; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:59 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.157.196 with SMTP id c4ls371119vcx.5.p; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.181.77 with SMTP id bx13mr908870vcb.4.1289589118660; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.181.77 with SMTP id bx13mr908869vcb.4.1289589118643; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com (mail-qy0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v3si190099vbw.0.2010.11.12.11.11.57; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.179; Received: by mail-qy0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 8so612477qyk.10 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.81.74 with SMTP id w10mr2279400qck.75.1289589117408; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.219.14 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:11:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4e2ac221-68ca-4ed6-94d9-9275bbc59114@r4g2000prj.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:11:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!). From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > 2010/11/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas : >> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Craig Daniel w= rote: >>> >>> =A0(Plus, >>> pronouncing somebody's name with the stress they like on it is >>> friendly.) >> >> Yes, that's similar to pronouncing a Chinese name with the tone they >> like, even though tone is irrelevant in Lojban. For personal names, it >> is polite to at least try to use whatever the name bearer likes, when >> you are aware of it and you are able to manage it. >> >> But for names of places, products, and so on, insisting that everyone >> should use one or another of the permissible forms is not really >> practical. >> >>> But yeah, there's no doubt about the fact that, from a morphological >>> and syntactical standpoint, .martin. and .marTIN. are the same name. >>> Ditto .ai,on,ys., .a,iO,nys., and any other variation in placement of >>> the commas and the stress. As far as the grammar is concerned, it is >>> as irrelevant as the fact that I say the name with a rounded .y. This >>> isn't a matter for disagreement; it's a feature of the official >>> parser. >> >> At least a feature of the official-to-be parser. I don't know what the >> currently official parser does, since it doesn't really have a fully >> functional morphology. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes > > =A0I know we can either a) go around with the same conversation again > or b) say "look it up the last time we did" but I'm forced once again > to point out that unlike tone or allophones, stress is recognized by > lojban as a language feature that makes a meaningful difference in > utterances, so to say that it doesn't make a difference in cmevla in > particular, is an arbitrary ruling (made by xorxes?) that I see no > support for. =A0 And to refer to your friend martin (=3DMARtin) as > "marTIN" is just plain wrong. la'e zo marTIN na du la'e zo MARtin .i > seni'ibo zo marTIN na du zo MARtin =A0(I think I'll start referring to > xorxes as "djordj" and see how that goes over). > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa > Oh, and to amplify the "... I see no support for" see CLL, chapter 4, section 8.10, point 4): "4) They may be stressed on any syllable; if this syllable is not the penultimate one, it must be capitalized when writing. Neither names nor words that begin sentences are capitalized in Lojban, so this is the only use of capital letters." Which means that stress MUST be a differntiating feature. --gy --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.