From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChCWz_bmBBoErwzBBg@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 12 12:46:31 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PH0Vu-0008HL-Js; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:31 -0800 Received: by gwj20 with SMTP id 20sf3110286gwj.16 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rj52qRv/s/v756VAPxdK60S8AABZPHrwIi2Axs90eq4=; b=ZSUKWCg985XCzp27G5uT/lxhqtk+eq43NuVCXrzVWiS6Drv602F8cRhpgU0Qjm0LkX gRtiv2IOmewdMUc5Af+n8K36fm8XJRH+ZMSWUAVP/ey0rjGhFTtEM9QSIinFF4kNeTkN YKePTRNw6hLrMAoQPHpcuOjTrdcukPvoNeEgI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hXWhzs5UmYteUIsavWxTexWRJmOOlJTNujs5Wm7Y9NkuPPZj5C6VtBZGendIb1iDTO 7P19ha6N08R2SgttShO+e3B0CXrt2Xafe2CeyIc0ptogGjkIZz8GLrcMp7APQux9z9kL FsGhftrxlRltkdqENjDKeALbPgHns6bz0sZAo= Received: by 10.91.45.5 with SMTP id x5mr232336agj.56.1289594774497; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.181.16 with SMTP id d16ls750674agf.3.p; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.3.37 with SMTP id 37mr1159424agc.13.1289594773813; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.3.37 with SMTP id 37mr1159422agc.13.1289594773802; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gy0-f181.google.com (mail-gy0-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m66si929076yha.15.2010.11.12.12.46.12; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.181; Received: by mail-gy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 5so2784860gye.26 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.180.197 with SMTP id bv5mr2548510icb.22.1289594771881; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.137 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:46:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] x1 to the left From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/11/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > > The other justification I heard is that you usually want ko'a in "lo > broda be ko'a", or in "da poi broda ko'a" to fall in the x2 place. > That's the reason I like, even if it's not the historically correct one for how it got that way. But I personally think of selbri-last as the "default" order (with lots of variation possible, either to make for less tangled syntax or for pragmatically marked reasons) precisely because it makes x1 feel less privileged. On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Frank wrote: > On 12 November 2010 13:59, Michael Turniansky wro= te: >> >> (i.e., in modern lojban "broda" would have equalled "ko >> broda"). =A0It's just a design choice. >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa > > However, in lojban, does not the absence of an argument to a selbri=A0sim= ply > mean that argument is unspecified? =A0In such case, "prami mi" means "Som= eone > unspecified Loves Me" and is not the command "Love Me". =A0In order to ma= ke it > a command, if I recall correctly, One is required to use "ko", so as to m= ake > the statement, "You (imperative), Love Me." =A0Such an idiom ("absence eq= uals > unspecified") is seen in the former Google Wave lesson where the Student = is > instructed the phrase "zdani mi" means "something houses Me" or "I have a > house" and is not told "You (imperative), house Me." =A0Is there actually= an > updated version of lojban, this "modern lojban", I have missed? =A0Or are= You > just saying, "If We were to start from scratch, We might make 'broda' equ= al > 'ko broda'."? > Just wanting to make sure I have read materials correctly. > mi'e xuinkrbin. Yup, you've got it right. Loglan did it differently, but Lojban works exactly as you think. - mi'e .kreig.daniyl. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.