Relevant to another thread, note that here a selbr= i is a predicate, not a relation. Standard logic is VSO (though 'S' a= nd 'O' introduce a non-logivcal distinction). Shifting to SVO in logi= c is almost always a sign that something non-standard is about to happen (t= he difference between ~xF and x~F, for example--one of the reasons for SVO = in Logjam).

From: Ian Johnson = <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To:= lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 9:28:29 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: x1 to the lef= t

If you're using place structure, you're inevitably going to "discriminate" = against some word order that is standard in some natlang. After all, there = are 6 different ones: SVO, SOV, VSO, VOS, OVS, OSV. Lojban without FA or SE= is SVO.

I will say, though, that VSO is a bit tempting; it takes the idea of se= lbri as predicates that take arguments and extends it to the actual way of = speaking the language. The main issue that I would have is that we would be= sacrificing the notion of a "bridi tail", which has some nice properties. = One of them, albeit one that doesn't actually get used much (probably becau= se most seljbobau are also selglibau) is the ability to say:
ko'a ko'e broda gi'e brode

A concrete example (this is used in L4B):=
la nik. la kalifornias. klama gi'e stali

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Luke Bergen <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lukeabergen@= gmail.com> wrote:

haha, I do speak lojba= nically; as often as I can. It's mostly the nit-picky theory-oriented= side of me that's irked by the fact that all the sumti slots of a selbri a= re same except in this one way. You use fa to move around to the slot= s or se to swap them around, all of this you do the same way for all of the= m. They all live by the same rules.... except this one.

It's like "all dogs go to heaven... except for poodles... be= cause it's convenient and therefore desirable".

It also seems somewhat biased against verb-object-subject and verb-= subject-object types of languages.

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lindar <lindartheb= ard@yahoo.com> wrote:
My two cents:

It's a feature, and a rather useful one. Very often the x1 is omitted
to make it a more observation-like phrasing. Speak Lojbanically and
you'll see why we have it set up that way. =3DP

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