From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxCK-PvmBBoEfdaJTQ@googlegroups.com Sat Nov 13 12:59:04 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PHNBb-0007II-Kv; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:59:04 -0800 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14sf2328346vws.16 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5O3GekWYi0pEHGudzupN0/yb73lQB3tkczUBCvNKmZo=; b=2YIs21YkoZtdXpsIf31zQ+YMsOJkhvVnL8oDmRV6PdvLpu/gBidjKXo6kgGO5QHL4H hDLdt5dzqH7KWwmwjkyXA/UOYI6acfpnJ2h8ggefS4kpv1Lrmi2MfreYxgenk++TbpMe JQUUHwUIufxQx1aNcbhawA0uM6wSmayN0Z60w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=OgOurLKpsLR7En2LPgFRpqGHW1rtSd9xiKd5wnuJ8btzf8lyVIVuPktQ+GCTF2Bvb8 VyM4EU1mX4O8eAtA0xybCicsVrz/Nh2Z+BoWQKjbjfYhdHJBwgluiWisGt5hEftMpc6Q afURRkWXPgfpu8Vi6ueGujl1WwJvHwolEjuHc= Received: by 10.220.71.142 with SMTP id h14mr234740vcj.33.1289681930330; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.158.5 with SMTP id d5ls137567vcx.2.p; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.201.11 with SMTP id ey11mr1325319vcb.0.1289681929425; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.201.11 with SMTP id ey11mr1325318vcb.0.1289681929410; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f48.google.com (mail-qw0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m16si234664vcr.2.2010.11.13.12.58.48; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.48; Received: by qwf7 with SMTP id 7so2408630qwf.35 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.181.210 with SMTP id bz18mr3522354qcb.43.1289681928170; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.226.15 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:58:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <940499.93769.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <940499.93769.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 21:58:48 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] mind map of lojban terms From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 4:52 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > I smell a use-mention confusion here, though it is hard to pin down. =A0x= orxes is > quite careful in his remarks about 'lerfu', but some other points are les= s > clear. As usual, the problem seems to circle around the core. =A0A bridi = is a > predicate, therefore =A0a word or phrase. =A0A selbri is then the abstrac= t entity, a > relation, to which the bridi refers (or, maybe. means). =A0A sumti is the= n a > object which is involved in the selbri relation, a relatum. =A0A brivla i= s a word > that can serve as a bridi. Sorry John, in the text above I couldn't really follow you. I'm not even sure if you're saying that what I wrote is wrong or not. And in case it was wrong I can get how to make it right! > =A0The definition of 'tanru' is then suspect since it > groups words (brivla) to form not a phrase (bridi) but a relation (selbri= ). In fact I said that a tanru is a selbri, not a brivla. What is wrong with t= hat? > =A0Similarly, a gadri is said to transform a selbri, a relation, into a s= umti, a > relatum. Isn't it? I mean from the selbri {plise} I get the sumti {lo plise} don't I= ? > Further, a cmevla is said to be =A0a word usable as a name ; but every > word is usable as a name, to this not quite what is wanted. Ok, maybe I get this. Would it be better if I say that a cmevla can *only* be used as name? > =A0And cmene is said > to be a way of referring, rather than something that refers in a certain = way. > =A0Sorting all this out seems a tedious task but maybe necessary, since I= think > all of the usages mentioned here actually occur from time to time in the > literature. I'll be happy to do it if you could give some more input. Please remember that a mind map (or a cheat sheet in genaral) is not meant to explain all the finest details but to be used as a reminder and to ease grasping the essential aspects of a topic. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.