From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDt3pnnBBoEXkQVUg@googlegroups.com Fri Nov 19 04:37:19 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PJQDJ-0006RM-1z; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:37:19 -0800 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14sf5610438vws.16 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:37:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=auj2rzknEp8JWbf/sb2gpEl/SgqAlj8jhAN9oJdl8IE=; b=yOU7kw0vs0YqJ1VEB9fhvbsN/XbHWsl7rBvI0Ln5c0qy07l5GO8I/PojO+7bbLb0OL QO0jjyGZl8A+lXrZ6DTC/PDbEI1SS4kZbdD6JcLIoW9CxHf5KYHNBF4e3zP9mAUwCH9/ 4PFAYr92zktaRFqqmJKp1TDnbp1bdUHjTw8Pw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Sb0Zl2ZgjXmIVEg6ZX+MbMlhBKJPa3v/B+WL1g4CX4TvGC7kO9gkr3K1WjrUUNRqxU Ul5h/ayvUMfkrl9JWvHeP+fXoKOxcXiDGljeF4YZeWGK0ckOlEJtDvQ/kzfWpKyh1+yC WZ0AjYrL4OQHQu9CD0TlaqtmRRbXyjIiXzW68= Received: by 10.220.177.67 with SMTP id bh3mr94439vcb.47.1290170221473; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:37:01 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.157.196 with SMTP id c4ls382552vcx.5.p; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.178.73 with SMTP id bl9mr786615vcb.3.1290170217811; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.178.73 with SMTP id bl9mr786614vcb.3.1290170217769; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m16si74994vcr.2.2010.11.19.04.36.56; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.54; Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2so90861qwi.41 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.182.147 with SMTP id cc19mr1744998qcb.265.1290170216405; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.219.14 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 04:36:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201011181119.03664.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 07:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] biodiversity and sequence of quantifiers From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364edb8672da7d04956729cc --0016364edb8672da7d04956729cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/11/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > > I'll take a stab at it: > > > > [fi'o suckancu da] ji'i pi ze lo ro spati poi se terdi ti cu diklo loi > papa > > gugde ku no'u la sralygu'e kujoi la razgu'e kujoi la jugygu'e kujoi la > > kolombi,as joi la ekuador joi la xingu'e kujoi la bidgu'e kujoi la > > madagaskar joi la mexygu'e kujoi la pervu'ui zei gugde kujoi la > gugdecudu > > > > No? > > You're missing the "only". There's probably more than 70% that are > local to those places, even if just 70% are local to *only* those > places. At least that's how I understand the original. > Why do I need the "only"? 1) Quantifiers in lojban specify exact numbers= , so I'm only talking about exactly 11 countries, and 70% of the plants. I'm not making any claims about the other ~200 countries or 30% of the plant species. 2) "diklo" already has inherent in it the concept of "localized to", and therefore are not outside those countries. OTOH, if the sense of the original is that you could pick up 70% of the world's plants by visitin= g those eleven countries, but not precluding the possibility that you could find those same plants elsewhere, then I have NOT captured the right sense. > > (And no comma is needed in ".kolombias." Commas are never needed, but > especially in this case since "Colombia" is three syllables in > Spanish.) > Thanks. --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016364edb8672da7d04956729cc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2010/11/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas &l= t;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Michael Turniansky
&l= t;mturniansky@gmail.com> wr= ote:
> I'll take a stab at it:
>
> [fi'o suckancu= da]=A0ji'i pi ze lo ro spati poi se terdi ti cu diklo loi papa
> gugde ku no'u la sralygu'e kujoi la razgu'e kujoi la jugyg= u'e kujoi la
> kolombi,as joi la ekuador joi la xingu'e kujoi= la bidgu'e kujoi la
> madagaskar joi la mexygu'e kujoi la pe= rvu'ui zei gugde kujoi la=A0 gugdecudu
>
> No?

You're missing the "only". Ther= e's probably more than 70% that are
local to those places, even if j= ust 70% are local to *only* those
places. At least that's how I unde= rstand the original.
=A0
=A0 Why do I need the "only"?=A0 1) Quantifiers=A0in lojban = specify exact numbers, so I'm only talking about=A0exactly 11=A0countri= es, and 70% of the plants.=A0 I'm not making any claims about the other= ~200 countries or 30% of the plant species.=A0 2)=A0 "diklo" alr= eady has inherent in it the concept of "localized to", and theref= ore are =A0not outside those countries.=A0 OTOH, if the sense of the origin= al is that you could pick up 70% of the world's plants by visiting thos= e eleven countries, but not precluding the possibility that you could find = those same plants elsewhere, then I have NOT captured the right sense.
=A0

(And no comma is needed in &= quot;.kolombias." Commas are never needed, but
especially in this c= ase since "Colombia" is three syllables in
Spanish.)
=A0
=A0 Thanks.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

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