From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDP4KDnBBoEL6A_sQ@googlegroups.com Sat Nov 20 12:32:32 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PJu6m-0005Im-7E; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:32 -0800 Received: by wwb31 with SMTP id 31sf719676wwb.16 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9J9UYnPoRcOm+v1lVdh6xu3pSjto61xHmCZh2KvvueU=; b=JcFyE1lgfC/Ye8Vh2485v906sDfapMK9OwujN7XywlnDJSeCOoWbmcIAey/QA2mWEI P8af8b7hgcV5HUGvuXDOU676X61mWsgC4anhYQej9qOHWIqI2eHRel1dCb9j2pgeNuDe JepKwZL2pP0EZnnCz7ctOb7o2/O8pZyGSj+1E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=r3d0ziY9Z01ZUWfOQfiXkF/kXf9lBEQmTb3WSsjt4NNEzpqUP+tA4sbArgfDATnRVE 4elVs5A6RbIKPVuAXP/HAontL7WJAoigDAk6azxlp3Ywgo4gxObRua9ROZbIkk1hNgoO 1KpY7JVQDeh7fdUABZfm/SndWzowcBDHo4llU= Received: by 10.217.3.203 with SMTP id r53mr427133wes.21.1290285135980; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:15 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.208.4 with SMTP id p4ls1533269weo.2.p; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.16.134 with SMTP id h6mr174901weh.13.1290285134738; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.16.134 with SMTP id h6mr174900weh.13.1290285134714; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com (mail-ww0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n18si328076wej.14.2010.11.20.12.32.13; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.46; Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so4560047wwf.27 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.155.15 with SMTP id q15mr4022857wbw.141.1290285133314; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.138.16 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:32:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <488884.33457.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <369894.93543.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <488884.33457.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:32:13 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-clausal ke'a From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 4:00 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > I was going to note that, in the expanded form, though not the original, another > approach would be just to extent the scope of the 'da'. but again, the 'no' case > rather cuts into that, and, indeed, reference back to a no case seems always to > be peculiar -- or to point to the more general suggestion you make, which seems > to cover all the possibilities (until we consider other quantifiers with > overlapping scopes). When overlapping quantifiers are involved, the simple rule of picking just the sumti also makes the most sense: ro lo prenu cu citka su'o lo plise .i ri kukte "Everyone ate at least one of the apples. They were delicious." If "ri" just points to "lo plise", there's not much of a problem. The alternative here is that it points to "lo ro lo plise poi se citka su'o lo prenu", but to get to that you have to apply some major transformations to the sentence as given. For each combination of quantifiers you would need to come up with a specific rule. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.