From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEJnhq-cEGgSQF7RI@googlegroups.com Mon Nov 22 14:37:29 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PKf0m-0006k4-UX; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:28 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf612121pvh.16 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=055tVUdsjzvmBOgHGEXq/T8orycPLZVoXb6q1eZ5JX4=; b=nfzJTv12kQBolGK+RCBZENgaqxFNnWeQDKam/qLP/stxu5O1lmo1ydi3WWMfzko1Cq WbxFopOAuxv35OQATCj7F5bTZfbXQDehAN8fEZ9opGFzp/pHdk6lCX30yCJSYfY6of7Q sgjEG9Xiln8Q+jREzxFC0fZ68zZWKRspMCuWw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=Nf37RUSkZQkoXyR7A9XilshfMTcJftXPcLCgjdG+B8VkPN/Gd911XI7fF1edj5KSLM iu9qSPP/RxlG+l5zoBIySD5G0MU6aar91nx4r0rYC9MOD2tkIuMruSlUwL7sTUlJyDbd Lu4fDO0Y8HWvY1U0+gMDWPdL5m71Jw2jg+Yew= Received: by 10.142.150.13 with SMTP id x13mr298096wfd.6.1290465433267; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:13 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls1754334wfb.0.p; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.30.7 with SMTP id h7mr4021204wfj.13.1290465430416; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.30.7 with SMTP id h7mr4021203wfj.13.1290465430388; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si8257284wfc.6.2010.11.22.14.37.10; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PKf0X-0006js-Go for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:37:09 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Re: Lojban Web Programming Help? Message-ID: <20101122223709.GH9301@digitalkingdom.org> References: <3bef85c9-8913-473d-b979-78631e81546e@q36g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> <20101121225935.GC5638@alice.local> <20101121230542.GW9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122000542.GD5638@alice.local> <20101122210255.GE9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122215921.GG9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122222038.GC9357@alice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20101122222038.GC9357@alice.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:20:38PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 01:59:22PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > I am anti-confident; my confidence in people in this community > > paying with their time has been thoroughly eroded over the > > years. [snip] > > It is interesting to me that the Lojban community managed to > publish a book, write a parser, and create a complete-ish > specification for the language--yet this sentiment of not having > support, help, encourgagement, or focus is commonly expressed. As always in the free software community and its relatives, these things were done by single people with little or no community assistance. The CLL was done almost entirely by John Cowan, as was the parser. There was a community behind it in a sense, but as far as I can tell it was the same as the BPFK now: large-scale burts of bitching, but a very few people (to my knowledge, 4 of them) doing the actual writeups, let alone the book. Also, that was all 20+ years ago, and centered around people that lived in close proximity and met in person. > Robin, is your expectation of what people will accomplish out of > line? There being 5 other people that did half as much around here as I do (in terms of the work that *needs* to be done, not just randomly grabbing something fun and playing with it for a few days) would make me *extremely* happy. Whether that's out of line from your POV, I dunno. > Has the community changed? Did it used to be better? No and no, as far as I can tell. > I'm curious as to what is going on, as I don't quite see us having > the skills and committement to publish a book, but some of us did > that anyway. The next book will get published because someone, almost certainly me, sits down and exerts a huge amount of effort, by themselves, until it's done. I'm hoping to take some advantaged of having local people to work with, but we'll see. The truth is that some things don't get done until and unless people sit down and *actually do them*, in a concentrated, serious fashion. There are things that will not get done by waiting until some member of a large community is "in the mood", period. It took me a decade of being part of this community to understand that. It's not really a criticism, it's simply a truth. I just wish there were more people around here that would occassionally sit down and do things in that fashion. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.