From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCS7avnBBoEJedyDA@googlegroups.com Mon Nov 22 15:03:03 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PKfPR-0008HF-QJ; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:03:02 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf613696pvh.16 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=iaazN5D0uIcpFDLv5IA0k+NO+lKfeNJ/Y6R36SWEPh4=; b=I2JpsIAyCKd0xsu2HDNTDRnfUp5uTPNQOjTceTft9WhiAvtIWrJWveSMeD24ZQuRdt oEw0JE5YZi+Kx8s96/f0xuo4hzwOF1XVo2C2A+CI+GzxWjrEn9OzdfFgU61DB10fZ7zN AoIc4NiNOX1pBeZU/qczburGiPyztK0g7YAIU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=QMEtPFrH8VRfXB/tzPo27i57K9NrVIlP78P0kv6ZBdPEqvCHHczi3djxIRM5Uksko4 quiQZEI7QIaAtghnx3UvXP3C3bm89tuNrV4oHwKFuz3K1eF6HQxre9Yyb92OrYLGH1xG mB1EpG6/wNy+QbmC6ekiPMtfcnMuZq18wuw5M= Received: by 10.143.153.15 with SMTP id f15mr302267wfo.1.1290466962654; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:42 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls1787764wfb.0.p; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.81.21 with SMTP id e21mr4028924wfb.28.1290466961759; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.81.21 with SMTP id e21mr4028922wfb.28.1290466961722; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f47.google.com (mail-pz0-f47.google.com [209.85.210.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si8284389wfc.6.2010.11.22.15.02.40; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.47; Received: by pzk34 with SMTP id 34so1877471pzk.34 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.30.15 with SMTP id h15mr5719792wfj.149.1290466960480; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.86.1 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20101122223709.GH9301@digitalkingdom.org> References: <3bef85c9-8913-473d-b979-78631e81546e@q36g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> <20101121225935.GC5638@alice.local> <20101121230542.GW9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122000542.GD5638@alice.local> <20101122210255.GE9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122215921.GG9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101122222038.GC9357@alice.local> <20101122223709.GH9301@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 18:02:40 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Re: Lojban Web Programming Help? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e90fd1c61afc0495ac4034 --001636e90fd1c61afc0495ac4034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is there a place where one can go to find the things that need to get done that aren't explicitly BPFK tasks? I would like to help if I can, but I don't know what there is to be done. (Unfortunately web programming is not a skill that I possess, and if I volunteered for this specific project I'd probably wind up being more of a liability than an asset.) mu'o mi'e latros. On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:20:38PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 01:59:22PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > > I am anti-confident; my confidence in people in this community > > > paying with their time has been thoroughly eroded over the > > > years. > [snip] > > > > It is interesting to me that the Lojban community managed to > > publish a book, write a parser, and create a complete-ish > > specification for the language--yet this sentiment of not having > > support, help, encourgagement, or focus is commonly expressed. > > As always in the free software community and its relatives, these > things were done by single people with little or no community > assistance. The CLL was done almost entirely by John Cowan, as was > the parser. There was a community behind it in a sense, but as far > as I can tell it was the same as the BPFK now: large-scale burts of > bitching, but a very few people (to my knowledge, 4 of them) doing > the actual writeups, let alone the book. > > Also, that was all 20+ years ago, and centered around people that > lived in close proximity and met in person. > > > Robin, is your expectation of what people will accomplish out of > > line? > > There being 5 other people that did half as much around here as I do > (in terms of the work that *needs* to be done, not just randomly > grabbing something fun and playing with it for a few days) would > make me *extremely* happy. Whether that's out of line from your > POV, I dunno. > > > Has the community changed? Did it used to be better? > > No and no, as far as I can tell. > > > I'm curious as to what is going on, as I don't quite see us having > > the skills and committement to publish a book, but some of us did > > that anyway. > > The next book will get published because someone, almost certainly > me, sits down and exerts a huge amount of effort, by themselves, > until it's done. I'm hoping to take some advantaged of having local > people to work with, but we'll see. > > The truth is that some things don't get done until and unless people > sit down and *actually do them*, in a concentrated, serious fashion. > There are things that will not get done by waiting until some member > of a large community is "in the mood", period. It took me a decade > of being part of this community to understand that. It's not really > a criticism, it's simply a truth. I just wish there were more > people around here that would occassionally sit down and do things > in that fashion. > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636e90fd1c61afc0495ac4034 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a place where one can go to find the things that need to get done = that aren't explicitly BPFK tasks? I would like to help if I can, but I= don't know what there is to be done. (Unfortunately web programming is= not a skill that I possess, and if I volunteered for this specific project= I'd probably wind up being more of a liability than an asset.)

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Mon, Nov= 22, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>= wrote:
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:20:38PM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 01:59:22PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >
> > I am anti-confident; my confidence in peo= ple in this community
> > paying with their time has been thoroughly eroded over the
> > years.
[snip]
>
> It is interesting to me that the Lojban community managed to
> publish a book, write a parser, and create a complete-ish
> specification for the language--yet this sentiment of not having
> support, help, encourgagement, or focus is commonly expressed.

As always in the free software community and its relatives, these
things were done by single people with little or no community
assistance. =A0The CLL was done almost entirely by John Cowan, as was
the parser. =A0There was a community behind it in a sense, but as far
as I can tell it was the same as the BPFK now: large-scale burts of
bitching, but a very few people (to my knowledge, 4 of them) doing
the actual writeups, let alone the book.

Also, that was all 20+ years ago, and centered around people that
lived in close proximity and met in person.

> Robin, is your expectation of what people will accomplish out of
> line?

There being 5 other people that did half as much around here as I do<= br> (in terms of the work that *needs* to be done, not just randomly
grabbing something fun and playing with it for a few days) would
make me *extremely* happy. =A0Whether that's out of line from your
POV, I dunno.

> Has the community changed? =A0Did it used to be better?

No and no, as far as I can tell.

> I'm curious as to what is going on, as I don't quite see us ha= ving
> the skills and committement to publish a book, but some of us did
> that anyway.

The next book will get published because someone, almost certainly me, sits down and exerts a huge amount of effort, by themselves,
until it's done. =A0I'm hoping to take some advantaged of having lo= cal
people to work with, but we'll see.

The truth is that some things don't get done until and unless people sit down and *actually do them*, in a concentrated, serious fashion.
There are things that will not get done by waiting until some member
of a large community is "in the mood", period. =A0It took me a de= cade
of being part of this community to understand that. =A0It's not really<= br> a criticism, it's simply a truth. =A0I just wish there were more
people around here that would occassionally sit down and do things
in that fashion.

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
You received this message because y= ou are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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