From lojban+bncCMqBsa7nERDRrrTnBBoEUFGFUw@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 05:47:19 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLFgh-0005gV-5H; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:47:18 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf1444265yxn.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:47:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xZxabXHs2wPMODBaK6U1P+BKa1pL91YF49z96XuQcFw=; b=z/T8Z4tBSwAvlsHgJsLN2n8WZzuv3cshGbdyr16TIOqWeycRbIQ6iWK/BQ10nFWuC9 4aGqwyhc6wWmJ2/Wfcgu3U25Ej2islFpCczVhft2I5pRFVoEqTahwDekxQR2Hk50HxpL iiD3TL/JtsPJ5Keq+b1wbhL258QnzOIQNnaFU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=p+GR63AX51vqwzuUrFxdeTKK79A3vE/NWpEro/SUIadTqK9/H3hqRio4W110ziaMFI JGhnAOmjF4CNFq5dljbjTAkirFhXLMfVEFEvM5Z7yfVbnyuH3YZEZYJr91YLjqFFj58S OCEtf7DxCFk4G2oPesTHduhZ9NS9vFM7wkswQ= Received: by 10.90.225.4 with SMTP id x4mr33985agg.39.1290606417889; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.172.9 with SMTP id z9ls330793ago.7.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.3.37 with SMTP id 37mr223267agc.13.1290606416399; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.3.37 with SMTP id 37mr223265agc.13.1290606416360; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f171.google.com (mail-gx0-f171.google.com [209.85.161.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t15si332343yhc.2.2010.11.24.05.46.55; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.171; Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so1310359gxk.2 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.206.15 with SMTP id d15mr922871ybg.240.1290606414794; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.16.139 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:46:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20101123184352.GE10838@alice.local> <20101123185211.GU9301@digitalkingdom.org> <20101123190157.GG10838@alice.local> <20101123232644.GJ10838@alice.local> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 00:46:54 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] rp-expression-tail ordered choice with empty grouping From: Ross Ogilvie To: lojban X-Original-Sender: oges007@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=oges007@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd401f2e60f6b0495ccb826 --000e0cd401f2e60f6b0495ccb826 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 As promised https://github.com/RossOgilvie/meksygerna I'm a git noob (only learnt it today), so let me know if it's not public accessible or otherwise misconfigured. The main part of my version of mekso is in the txt file. A poorly written brain-dump is in the README file. Questions, comments and criticisms welcome. Addressing the question of backwards: I've removed the restriction that RP expressions have exactly 2 arguments, so this creates a little problem fu'a 1 2 3 + x = (1 ( 2 3 +) x) = 5 OFFICIAL LOJBAN 1 2 3 + x = ( (1 2 3 +) x) = 7 MY MEKSO Given the little volume of RP though, I don't think it's a big deal. I haven't noticed any others, though they probably exist. The rest of the folder is a simple parser I wrote for it. The code is all handwritten and pretty messy. I've compiled a working version in bin/Release. It's .Net 3.5 mi'e ros On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > Ahh, I started with xorxes' proposal ( > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=MEX+grammar+proposal ) and > have been tweaking and extending. But it should be largely backward > compatible hopefully. Like I said, I don't want to build it up before I know > it works (or mostly works). > > mi'e ros > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:26 AM, .alyn.post. < > alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > >> I'm interested. >> >> Is this compatible with the current grammar? What is it that you >> mean when you say "playing around?" >> >> -Alan >> >> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:17:42AM +1100, Ross Ogilvie wrote: >> > I've been playing around with the mekso grammar recently. I think I >> have a >> > rewrite, but I want to finish coding and check that it works as I >> want it >> > to. I'll post tomorrow or the day after if people are interested. >> > >> > mi'e ros >> > >> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:01 AM, .alyn.post. >> > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:52:11AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:43:52AM -0700, .alyn.post. wrote: >> > > > What does the following production in the lojban grammar mean?: >> > > > >> > > > rp-expression-tail <- rp-expression operator rp-expression-tail >> / >> > > > () >> > > > >> > > > Do I understand that to mean 'the sequence of rp-expression, >> > > > operator, and rp-expression-tail OR nothing?' Could the above >> > > > also be expressed: >> > > > >> > > > rp-expression-tail <- (rp-expression operator >> rp-expression-tail)? >> > > > >> > > > And if so, why the odd way of specifying it? I'm weak on >> pitfalls >> > > > of recursive behavior in grammars, am I looking at a workaround >> > > > related to that? >> > > >> > > Yes, and it mostly doesn't work. Lojban's RPN (which, if I have >> my >> > > druthers, the next version of the language will not have, by the >> > > way) is left-recursive, which is problematic. See the peg mailing >> > > list for various solutions, but IMO since a number of PEG parser >> > > generators handle this on their own, I think we should just have >> it >> > > be left-recursive and say that people have to use such a >> generator. >> > > >> > > If you can figure out how to fix it in in the rules so the right >> > > behaviour pops out, though, *please* do so. There are links to >> > > papers on the peg mailing list; it came up just last week; "*[1]* >> > > *Packrat Parsers Can Support Left Recursion*, Alessandro Warth, >> > > James R. Douglass, and Todd Millstein (2008)" is the citation I'm >> > > seeing at a brief glance. >> > > >> > >> > Great. I saw that thread and ignored it as not being relevant in >> > the moment, but I'm happy to read it and play with it when I get to >> > that point. >> > >> > I've downloaded the paper and cached it with this problem, as I'm a >> > bit ahead of myself with it. >> > -Alan >> > -- >> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [2]lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [3]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > [4]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > >> > References >> > >> > Visible links >> > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org >> > 2. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 3. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 4. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en >> >> -- >> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd401f2e60f6b0495ccb826 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As promised https://g= ithub.com/RossOgilvie/meksygerna
I'm a git noob (only learnt it = today), so let me know if it's not public accessible or otherwise misco= nfigured.

The main part of my version of mekso is in the txt file. A poorly writt= en brain-dump is in the README file. Questions, comments and criticisms wel= come.

Addressing the question of backwards: I've removed the res= triction that RP expressions have exactly 2 arguments, so this creates a li= ttle problem
fu'a 1 2 3 + x =3D (1 ( 2 3 +) x) =3D 5=A0 OFFICIAL LOJBAN
1 2 3 + x= =3D ( (1 2 3 +) x) =3D 7=A0 MY MEKSO
Given the little volume of RP thou= gh, I don't think it's a big deal. I haven't noticed any others= , though they probably exist.

The rest of the folder is a simple parser I wrote for it. The code is a= ll handwritten and pretty messy. I've compiled a working version in bin= /Release. It's .Net 3.5

mi'e ros

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Ross Ogilvie <oges007@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border= -left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Ahh, I started with xorxes' proposal ( http://= www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DMEX+grammar+proposal ) and ha= ve been tweaking and extending. But it should be largely backward compatibl= e hopefully. Like I said, I don't want to build it up before I know it = works (or mostly works).

mi'e ros


On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:26 AM, .alyn.post. &= lt;alyn= .post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
I'm interested.

Is this compatible with the current grammar? =A0What is it that you
mean when you say "playing around?"

-Alan

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:17:42AM +1100, Ross Ogilvie wrote:
> =A0 =A0I've been playing around with the mekso grammar recently. I= think I have a
> =A0 =A0rewrite, but I want to finish coding and check that it works as= I want it
> =A0 =A0to. I'll post tomorrow or the day after if people are inter= ested.
>
> =A0 =A0mi'e ros
>
> =A0 =A0On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:01 AM, .alyn.post.
> =A0 =A0<[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org&g= t; wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:52:11AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell = wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:43:52AM -0700, .alyn.post. = wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > What does the following production in the lojban = grammar mean?:
> =A0 =A0 =A0> >
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > rp-expression-tail <- rp-expression operator r= p-expression-tail /
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > ()
> =A0 =A0 =A0> >
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > Do I understand that to mean 'the sequence of= rp-expression,
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > operator, and rp-expression-tail OR nothing?'= Could the above
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > also be expressed:
> =A0 =A0 =A0> >
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > rp-expression-tail <- (rp-expression operator = rp-expression-tail)?
> =A0 =A0 =A0> >
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > And if so, why the odd way of specifying it? I= 9;m weak on pitfalls
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > of recursive behavior in grammars, am I looking a= t a workaround
> =A0 =A0 =A0> > related to that?
> =A0 =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0 =A0> Yes, and it mostly doesn't work. Lojban's RPN = (which, if I have my
> =A0 =A0 =A0> druthers, the next version of the language will not ha= ve, by the
> =A0 =A0 =A0> way) is left-recursive, which is problematic. See the = peg mailing
> =A0 =A0 =A0> list for various solutions, but IMO since a number of = PEG parser
> =A0 =A0 =A0> generators handle this on their own, I think we should= just have it
> =A0 =A0 =A0> be left-recursive and say that people have to use such= a generator.
> =A0 =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0 =A0> If you can figure out how to fix it in in the rules so= the right
> =A0 =A0 =A0> behaviour pops out, though, *please* do so. There are = links to
> =A0 =A0 =A0> papers on the peg mailing list; it came up just last w= eek; "*[1]*
> =A0 =A0 =A0> *Packrat Parsers Can Support Left Recursion*, Alessand= ro Warth,
> =A0 =A0 =A0> James R. Douglass, and Todd Millstein (2008)" is = the citation I'm
> =A0 =A0 =A0> seeing at a brief glance.
> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0Great. I saw that thread and ignored it as not being releva= nt in
> =A0 =A0 =A0the moment, but I'm happy to read it and play with it w= hen I get to
> =A0 =A0 =A0that point.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0I've downloaded the paper and cached it with this probl= em, as I'm a
> =A0 =A0 =A0bit ahead of myself with it.
> =A0 =A0 =A0-Alan
> =A0 =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0 =A0.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0 =A0You received this message because you are subscribed to the= Google
> =A0 =A0 =A0Groups "lojban" group.
> =A0 =A0 =A0To post to this group, send email to [2]lojban@googlegroups.c= om.
> =A0 =A0 =A0To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> =A0 =A0 =A0[3]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0 =A0For more options, visit this group at
> =A0 =A0 =A0[4]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
>
> =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo= gle Groups
> =A0 =A0"lojban" group.
> =A0 =A0To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> =A0 =A0lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0For more options, visit this group at
> =A0 =A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> References
>
> =A0 =A0Visible links
> =A0 =A01. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> =A0 =A02. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A03. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A04. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den

--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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