From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCu8rTnBBoEjWFFoQ@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 08:11:40 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLHwW-0001n8-SM; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:40 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf1087470pvh.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Q/aNBOK7VUXKz8XZaMUUD4uNUFJvMvoZbJkQ7BXQ/xI=; b=PTR7ge5BnH3QP6cCx6TMty4uhadmnyNV0tZxukw56zs6CMqiaaCEkj+YybAVIuScI6 yRmFsmEZlmAUYWqp2DPAKx2cVL9g7f69l68Nh5CmSwyeUzrWLaQPaoQGnEa6LGndnNhH xJlDlsVlXq4fTqkwGfpQpnCme+dV8bHiOi1b8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=vrfBikoBQfFo62iheR3cZok09bbhHOIA1klabdq+FSopYjB0aX0k31eLztKJmvFKdn USwuGNT1x8H4UA0SJM2LkrkkyCt84LREbj+g0MG4t9Qmk1QJlZqsr8XL1DQQOtPvC6aj x0bZOmfXgQEA+5dC5pxLpd1iFX6TBTFAy2hQ4= Received: by 10.142.65.4 with SMTP id n4mr489695wfa.19.1290615086732; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls1280434wfb.0.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.188.20 with SMTP id l20mr5658234wff.2.1290615085977; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.188.20 with SMTP id l20mr5658233wff.2.1290615085942; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-px0-f175.google.com (mail-px0-f175.google.com [209.85.212.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n6si10671873wfl.3.2010.11.24.08.11.24; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.175; Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so2668641pxi.34 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.131.17 with SMTP id e17mr8780506wfd.320.1290615084706; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.86.1 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:11:24 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd29c8eaa7b8e0495cebdee --000e0cd29c8eaa7b8e0495cebdee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I don't want the idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involving broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate. I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequence or set (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately this has to be in English: The predicate "klama" takes five arguments. Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actually but I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. Nice to know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do. .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros. On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by "the predicate > itself as an abstract concept". You can certainly find the idea of broda > intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect that's not what you > mean? Is there any way you can put your abstract example into a more > concrete one? > --gejyspa > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > >> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "an x1 of >> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having not to do >> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predicate itself, as >> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo selbri be fa >> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it. >> >> mu'o mi'e latros. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd29c8eaa7b8e0495cebdee Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I= don't want the idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a propo= sition involving broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicat= e.

I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequenc= e or set (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortuna= tely this has to be in English:

The predicate "klama" take= s five arguments.

Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actu= ally but I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete objec= t. Nice to know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard = to do.

.i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky &= lt;mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=
=A0I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean=A0by =A0&qu= ot;the predicate itself as an abstract concept".=A0=A0 You can certain= ly find the idea of broda intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri&quo= t;, but I expect that's not what you mean?=A0 Is there any way you can = put your abstract example into a more concrete one?
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa


=A0
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a way to= take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "an x1 of broda" but = simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having not= to do with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predicate it= self, as an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo selb= ri be fa zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it.=20

mu'o mi'e latros.

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