From lojban+bncCIPo5fbjAhCE6sHmBBoEOsCAiQ@googlegroups.com Tue Nov 02 13:31:16 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PDNVf-00041F-9K; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:31:16 -0700 Received: by gxk28 with SMTP id 28sf11683873gxk.16 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:31:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :sender:received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G/EOvVi2Vkbr06cTeICK4qOZvXVnwT06yzbT249KnG0=; b=RbDYEtb4Mh553Xnjsjf/u5h4V8hAELhy7Og604SfqzbAYeAY0C68azrRM48EP7k2nJ OQ4JxLwT/uZVIj+ySzfXEt6EerF6fFJG19Cx2A2HczvftYlsQ3EkitECooyNqw1pDB5e 5VW3jJjj6ANPoOkGIb+pAYULGxAfGk+JWiKoc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=RobGPgOfEhn6wsBoN4udU7nx964W6awCTne+P1CNTRR2rD5mRJjcHGoGRW0b9vCLmx gUxHK8FWmWyQ+7XhYgCTfpHWx/gC14hjifTUzPVbo4SvJ298CdPW5M2c1MMwI9fCps4J zKPPsFNZjK3t0BBmqG00+eQjpSkuI4BB+KGkk= Received: by 10.150.171.13 with SMTP id t13mr2588552ybe.41.1288729860142; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:31:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.1.11 with SMTP id 11ls219175yba.0.p; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.54.3 with SMTP id c3mr7593179yba.25.1288729859411; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.136.9 with SMTP id j9mr2785535wfd.38.1288726647570; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.136.9 with SMTP id j9mr2785534wfd.38.1288726647543; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f45.google.com (mail-pw0-f45.google.com [209.85.160.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si13227457wfc.6.2010.11.02.12.37.26; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of cyril.slobin@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.45; Received: by pwj6 with SMTP id 6so1765159pwj.32 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:37:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.134.6 with SMTP id h6mr5141105wfd.111.1288726644984; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.204.3 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Nov 2010 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 22:37:24 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The place structure of {selma'o} From: Cyril Slobin To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: cyrilslobin@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of cyril.slobin@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=cyril.slobin@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/6/22 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > We could make an effort and use "vlalei" instead of "selma'o" for that > concept, but so far the word that has been generally used is "selma'o". Sorry for resurrecting this thread three months later, but: I was always believed that the general rule is: when lujvo is made (i.e. included in "official" dictionary or such), one of the possible meanings of the original tanru is chosen, and all other possible meanings are therefore discarded. For example, {carvi kosta} can mean "coat of rain" in some (presumably poetic) text, but {cavykosta} is "raincoat" only (according to jbovlaste and old noralujv.txt file). If, in some imaginary world, people will been coated in rain more often than coated to protect themselves from rain, the reverse could be possible, but in our world the meaning of lujvo is fixed in our way. But, in any way, {cavykosta} *is* {carvi kosta}, albeit the reverse is not necessary true. Similarly, {se cmavo} is not technically a tanru, but I believe the same rule applies here: the meaning of {selma'o} can be narrower then of {se cmavo}, but not wider. And concerning general usage: we have a precedent when widely used but illogical term was fixed, and usage changed thereafter: {fu'ivla} was {le'avla} time ago. --=20 http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, `it means just what I choose it to mean' --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.