From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD7irXnBBoEwcTDew@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 09:04:14 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLIlK-0001lC-Pi; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:04:14 -0800 Received: by gwj23 with SMTP id 23sf1684996gwj.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:04:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=atzxcn3HmxccO8g95VtTjQVQ7r7vVjJ3+Gzrr+TeoJ8=; b=KkvzxnDxt3TefICoW0IE9VVzcEBHCWXgmkgD49kV+v1VgnOEMpttvhJOQNSS16vQuJ SmUaw1GwGUZpblcNTRs0Dwo2Zlbqu1tohQzR5nVs6Bv+v+u5Vx/1tRF1vxxXbzOF12be mEZGS306mAYGuN0AEPNu+PWv3SeZHfNsKIKoo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=d9F+/ieogvXeBthGkW/E26cWYnYnO1OzNkybklnQ8HB+FnxnEE5G/WcQIcrl4wthMB HgE0geCFgWd4wu9JTp8usTpLpTfudq2qWeScYitUt0jNslRW5su907c0ifLRlg8p/stZ i13HD4U5UFYtp8BJvYDU9Ozkju6//E2lLjtkw= Received: by 10.90.155.19 with SMTP id c19mr60841age.51.1290618235851; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:55 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.17.22 with SMTP id 22ls286477agq.2.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.82.14 with SMTP id f14mr342466agb.17.1290618234857; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.82.14 with SMTP id f14mr342465agb.17.1290618234706; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id f46si541729yhc.8.2010.11.24.09.03.53; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.122; Received: (qmail 9681 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2010 17:03:53 -0000 Message-ID: <99731.9603.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: zHRJYrQVM1n24d5QnhZuzCZNNc7S9GmOpXDnViVrShEpjzA JmNQVK..Kd5_0S_iyYFKE.PWSAtetotYemDhgpywHp2FtDS6O2aDBLamObQv itWiLKchUXcwpyX3cAFbG1LK8V4NvxqtQECLxTnYqNyyoIysWSWQBWEL0aVl VbkOe2YO7uuC5Mqug5vxUA2sHZccd_C9lQDttBmL7cHoO5jcJTC4_._MpOO4 jB3_N3fyYOsvRQ1eyzsWYrBMm2fegI_lbTUmRBYGF3Pc3QLCeo1qe9R5RX0L y4vGufOG42cCnYFo3crkHuLFo_4_JU9B0GTl6a8tq7yhlED9GGEwCZeeE73E ANXkLyqX4H8fIQpWDgDn5TTlka7GFnQ-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:53 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:03:53 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I suppose 'lo mu terbri' "five terms-serving-as-arguments" ----- Original Message ---- From: purpleposeidon To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:40:47 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate {zo klama bridi fi mu terbri}, {zo klama bridi fi mu lo ro terbri}? On 11/24/10, Ian Johnson wrote: > {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I don't want the > idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involving > broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate. > > I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequence or set > (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately this has > to be in English: > > The predicate "klama" takes five arguments. > > Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actually but > I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. Nice to > know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do. > > .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros. > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by "the predicate >> itself as an abstract concept". You can certainly find the idea of broda >> intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect that's not what you >> mean? Is there any way you can put your abstract example into a more >> concrete one? >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "an x1 of >>> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having not to do >>> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predicate itself, >>> as >>> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo selbri be >>> fa >>> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it. >>> >>> mu'o mi'e latros. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.